Re:I have attained (Score:0) by flollywebfrog (flolly@pooper.cc) on Sunday November 18, @05:25PM (#2582052) (User #462849 Info | http://www.slashdot.org/)

how did you know?

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Re:Big deal... (Score:0, Offtopic) by Petrol on Sunday November 18, @12:30PM (#2581289) (User #18446 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

No, The Onion has a staff of very clever writers.

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Re:Big deal... (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @12:58PM (#2581356)

You must be British to know what parody really is.

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Re:Big deal... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @12:59PM (#2581357)

Um, read your parent post again.

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Re:Big deal... (Score:1) by garcia on Sunday November 18, @12:46PM (#2581332) (User #6573 Info | http://supplication.lazylightning.org/)

umm, this isn't "machine" in the sense that a program actually does it. The people @ the Onion are just a group of really fucking funny people. I honestly don't think that what this program does is all that funny, nor do I care about what happens as a result of this... It's one thing to do a parody of a site on your own as a joke or whatever but to make a fucking program so that other people can have the almost exact same thing so that they can be annoying and put up stupid, unoriginal, web-sites? Goto any mom-pop ISP and load up someone's web page. There are plenty of sites out there that are almost identical w/a few changes that are almost funny... "Welcome to my HOMEPAGE! -- This site is under construction"

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Re:Big deal... (Score:1) by orius_khan (orius_khan@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com) on Monday November 19, @01:04AM (#2583379) (User #416293 Info)

I dunno, I thought their little side note (with picture) that: "Jenna Bush's federally protected wetlands now open for public drilling." was pretty fucking funny myself. I'd like to see a machine come up with THAT.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by imrdkl on Sunday November 18, @01:15PM (#2581381) (User #302224 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

This all seems to be rather ill-planned to me Since when has the net been anything more (or less)? Fighting fire with fire makes the whole world warm. (and cozy)

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Only (Score:1, Funny) by modraken (modraken@v1DOTshacknetDOTnu) on Sunday November 18, @01:17PM (#2581384) (User #162541 Info)

Apple was able to sue over "look and feel", Only a whore charges for a look and a feel.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by ChuyMatt (klatch123.spamsux.1_i5_1337@hotmail.com) on Sunday November 18, @01:27PM (#2581408) (User #318775 Info | http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=28960)

Well, apple seemed to have reason too. It did look the same and the target market was exactly the same. This is just stupid. Throwing their weight arround, bully crap. Now they are in an interesting spot...

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by DotComVictim on Sunday November 18, @02:06PM (#2581492) (User #454236 Info)

It may very well encourage companies to sue - this is usually the default knee jerk reaction management will take. The designers of this software were very clever to make it parody - there is legal precedent protecting parodies of a work, as it constitutes free speech. This means they can justifiably have siginificant non-infringing use of trademarks and copyrighted material.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @02:34PM (#2581553)

Parody and impersonation is not forbidden by trademark and copyright law! Just check out those little peeing Calvin stickers! Do you actually think that Waterson approved that? No, of course not, but he can't sue either because its not actually Calvin, it just LOOKS LIKE Calvin. Most of these 'look and feel' suits will likely be overturned upon appeal.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:2) by haruharaharu on Sunday November 18, @04:40PM (#2581879) (User #443975 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Parody and impersonation is not forbidden by trademark and copyright law! Just check out those little peeing Calvin stickers! Actually, those are probably illegal, or at least infringing. It's just that they're damn near impossible to get rid of.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by Digitalia on Sunday November 18, @02:41PM (#2581574) (User #127982 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Little known fact: Anyone can sue for anything. So asking what would bar someone from suing for this is a rather moot question as there is nothing barring anyone from suing for anything. The real question is, what would bar these people from winning such a lawsuit? The answer: jurisprudence. We're safe for a little while, but I hear the Supreme Court is going IPO...

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by aka-ed (aka-ed.att@net) on Sunday November 18, @04:42PM (#2581883) (User #459608 Info | http://www.aka-ed.com/)

No, the real question is, does any IP holder have enough time to sue everybody who creates a parody site using this sort of automation, assuming a few people cared enough to put a concerted effort behind creating parody-clones?. The message sent by the creation of this software is that, if IP holders choose to engage in legal harassment, there are ways that the few people who care can make an even bigger nuisance, without recourse to lawyers. Even if the product of the software is not funny, the concept is both funny (in its ironic justice of web harassment traded for legal harassment) and relevant to the politics of the web.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:2, Interesting) by ninewands (ninewands@pdq.not.net) on Sunday November 18, @10:35PM (#2583025) (User #105734 Info)

Won't this just encourage corporations to sue over copyright infringement even more? No. First, the WTO isn't a corporation, it's an association of governments, therefore, it is arguable that they can't even own copyrights except in the capacity of a trustee for their citizens. Second, there has to be copyrighted material on the site to the extent that it falls outside the "fair-use" doctrine, which, in the case of parody, is a broad sword, indeed. I haven't heard any news about Microsoft getting ready to sue the owner of www.fuckmicrosoft.com, even though the graphics on the site are damn near a direct knockoff of microsoft.com Third, don't confuse "look and feel" with copyright ... "look and feel" issues are generally dealt with in a body of law more closely akin to trademark law than copyright. ... what would bar these people from doing the same? Three words ... Apple was losing. That's why they settled with Microsoft on VERY generous (to Microsoft) terms.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by MegaFur (wyrd AT earthling DOT net) on Monday November 19, @01:01AM (#2583375) (User #79453 Info)

Won't this just encourage corporations to sue over copyright infringement even more? Who cares? If every man, woman, and child runs paradies of big corporations, the companies won't have anything to gain by sueing--you can't sue everyone and get away with it.

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Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1) by ab315 on Monday November 19, @06:41AM (#2584005) (User #443209 Info)

When are people going to realise that these parody sites are just so BORING and PATRONIZING?! Maybe the first ten were funny but it's getting pretty tedious now. If somebody has a good idea about how to organize international trade, or whatever, I'd rather they just made a short factual web page about it and let that be judged on its merit. I mean, we all know that there are major problems in the world but the way these sites go on they are just patronizing. I mean they generally try to make some ridiculous point, like the world bank, IMF, etc supposedly being responsible for all the worlds problems, while the sites authors seem to have all the answers. Sheesh, even high-school debating societies are on a higher intellectual level than that. I really think these sites just show that the people behind them are mentally-maladjusted and somehow want to show how they are just superior to everybody else. The people who put all their time into these sites would be better using their skills to do something useful, like writing free software that would help people in developing countries for example.

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Re:Support the DDA! (Score:1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @02:00PM (#2581473)

How is this unwarranted? You have a group that's using a well-known term in a deliberate attempt to confuse people. Free speech and parody are one thing, fraud is something else. When you're trying hard and succeeding in fooling people about your identity and motives, that crosses the line into fraud.

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Re:Support the DDA! (Score:4, Insightful) by aka-ed (aka-ed.att@net) on Sunday November 18, @05:10PM (#2581999) (User #459608 Info | http://www.aka-ed.com/)

Have you viewed the site [http]? Were you confused? For how long? If over a minute, where's your reading comprehension? It was established some time ago that registering a trademark in order to place a site criticizing the trademark's owner is not "bad faith." The WTO accused these folks of "harvesting" email addresses, but doesn't say what method they used...according to the site, the only method they used to "harvest" addresses was some "mailto:" links. WTO is annoyed by the mockery and is interpreting the facts to suit themselves. Computerworld ran an article [computerworld.com] on this following WTO's party line on this issue so slavishly as to stretch anyone's definition of journalistic ethics. Most interesting is this passage: The fake WTO site changed its look this afternoon so that it no longer exactly resembles the real WTO Web site. Even so, the phony site contains so many references to the WTO that some search engines are directing people to it instead of to the official site. A search of AltaVista using the keyword WTO returns www.gatt.org in fifth place. So, according to the WTO and to an incompetent journalist at Computerworld, establishing an anti-WTO site that shows up fifth in search engines is tantamount to site-jacking!! Is this the type of reasoning that you wish to defend?

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Re:Support the DDA! (Score:1) by aka-ed (aka-ed.att@net) on Sunday November 18, @05:15PM (#2582016) (User #459608 Info | http://www.aka-ed.com/)

Excuse the bad link above, somehow slashcode messed up my well-formed link to gatt.org [gatt.org] (yes! slashcode! not me!)

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Re:Support the DDA! (Score:1) by Liquor (Liquor@iname.SPAMLESS.com) on Monday November 19, @01:12AM (#2583396) (User #189040 Info)

well-formed link to gatt.org [\\gatt.org] Proof that slashcode was not written by Windows users :)

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Does anyone have a link to a (non-distorted) mirror?

I know slashdot editors think everything done by corporations somehow tramples on my rights, but I just don't see the connection here.

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Informative) by hearingaid (loki@citadel.twwol.dyndns.org) on Sunday November 18, @12:46PM (#2581331) (User #216439 Info | http://www.twwol.dyndns.org/)

The World Trade Organization is not an ordinary corporation; it's an international UN organization. Imagine if the Red Cross wanted people to take down websites complaining about people who were infected by HIV via blood transfusions. Get it?

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1, Insightful) by Zeinfeld on Sunday November 18, @02:12PM (#2581507) (User #263942 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

The World Trade Organization is not an ordinary corporation; it's an international UN organization. That does not significantly change the remedies available to the WTO. It appears to me that the WTO would have a good case to make. The gatt.org site is not a 'parody' site, it is deliberately passing itself off as the official WTO site. It is intentionally deceiving the readers. As a result the WTO would appear to have many remedies available, the copyright on its logos, 'passing off' and libel. These guys deserve everything that is comming to them. Deceit and lies are not legitimate means of protest. I don't see why we should be leaping to protect these idiots. Its like getting excited when people who go to demonstrations to get arrested get arrested and go to jail. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Amongst the statements on the site are: Much has been made lately of IBM's participation in the Holocaust. Indeed, IBM proactively and creatively helped the Nazis identify all of Germany's Jews, which in turn made possible the biggest slaughter of all time. Freedom of speech is not the freedom to impersonate others. The gatt.org site is a censorship site, not a freedom of speech site, its explicit intention is to deny the WTO the right to speak for themselves by putting words into their mouth.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1) by deaddrunk on Sunday November 18, @02:40PM (#2581572) (User #443038 Info)

Deceit and lies are not legitimate means of protest. And I suppose the people that founded the USA never told a lie (the cherry tree legend not withstanding). Why is lying not a legitimate form of protest? It seems to be a legitimate form of political organisations like the WTO.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Interesting) by Zeinfeld on Sunday November 18, @03:43PM (#2581741) (User #263942 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

And I suppose the people that founded the USA never told a lie (the cherry tree legend not withstanding). Why is lying not a legitimate form of protest? It seems to be a legitimate form of political organisations like the WTO. Why should anyone believe someone who is obviously telling lies? How do you know the truth from the lies? One of the reasons I have no time for the anti-WTO protestors is that they appear to have no idea what they are protesting about. They completely fail to set out a coherent set of political goals or a strategy to achieve them. For example amongst the protestors are people complaining that the third world is paid too little for the goods they export to the US and others who are complaining about the loss of US jobs. Denying access to the US markets is not going to help the developing world. I don't see many of the anti-WTO protestors at the conferences trying to do something positive for the third world. Equally it is a bit odd being lectured on the evils of global capitalism by some teenager wearing a $150 pair of Nike trainers.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by Kupek (scschnei@vt.edu) on Sunday November 18, @04:46PM (#2581901) (User #75469 Info | http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/scschnei)

What's also not going to help the developing world is allowing U.S. corporations to exploit third world workers for cheap labor that is prevented by their own poverty and lack of political influence in their own country from unionizing.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Interesting) by Zeinfeld on Sunday November 18, @06:47PM (#2582331) (User #263942 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

What's also not going to help the developing world is allowing U.S. corporations to exploit third world workers for cheap labor that is prevented by their own poverty and lack of political influence in their own country from unionizing. Trade is not inevitably exploitation. You sound like the trotskyites used to. I get the feeling that people want to have opinions on this subject that are simple, easy and comforting. Their real demands have nothing to do with trade, they are demanding that life be as simplistic as their ideology. I find it interesting that both the posts I have made so far have been moderated up as 'Insightful', then down as 'flamebait' and 'offtopic'. The topic is the gatt.org site so the person who modded me offtopic is simply disagreeing. As for flamebait, it seems that these people don't like hearing any disagreements. That could explain why they have to create their own WTO site.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1) by NeMon'ess (miDdAfMlNinx007@ySaPhAoMo.com) on Monday November 19, @12:50AM (#2583353) (User #160583 Info)

You are correct that trade is not inevitable exploitation. The parent you responded to was not talking about all trade, Only trade between first and third world nations. So I ask you, how much trade between the USA and third world nations is exploitive and how much is not? I'd say quite a bit does not give the people employed fair benefits and compensation. This prevents the third world nation from advancing its people to first world nation status.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1) by SectoidRandom on Sunday November 18, @09:52PM (#2582895) (User #87023 Info | http://www.sectoid.org/)

I agree with you very much there, even though i have many disagreements with a lot of things the WTO does, I dont think too many of the protestors understand what they are protesting. (Okay thats a blind generalisation..) The major job of the WTO is to in some way control and or direct capitalism. The protests such as Seattle give me dejavu of reading about the Communist revolution in Russia at the beginning of last century. All those Marxist / socialist stereotypes that unfortunatly (but not IMO unfairly) seem to be branded on most of the protestors really manages overshadow the 'issues' that need to be protested! Whoa, a little OT there, ahh screw it. ;) ./

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by -Harlequin- on Sunday November 18, @11:10PM (#2583108) (User #169395 Info)

One of the reasons I have no time for the anti-WTO protestors is that they appear to have no idea what they are protesting about. They completely fail to set out a coherent set of political goals or a strategy to achieve them. Unfortunately, this misconception is quite common. You are confusing persons with people. The impact of the course that globalization is being directed along affects many different people in many different ways. When it hurts people, they protest. When it hurts people in different ways for different reasons, they usually protest about the problem that is relevant to them. Naturally, this means people protesting for different reasons, and some of them might be at odds with the reasons other people oppose globalization's current direction. Big Fat Hairy Deal! Why would you expect anything else - let alone try to use this as some kind of reason to dismiss their problems or concerns?!? I don't understand why the vast range of issues regarding globalization's current course makes them somehow less legitimate than the kind of highly organised and coherrent campaign that only insincere PR organisations are capible of. Many people have extremely coherrent set of political goals, strategy, etc. That different people are different, such that all that diversity results in a diverse rather than single-minded "movement" seems an absurd reason to dismiss all those people. And it's exactly the same argument that MS is making against Linux, and MS's argument is just as silly. Ok ok, it's not silly, there is real merit to the arg, but there is more merit to the counter arg - as demonsrated by Linux and OSS now being "THE threat" to MS. People are different. Therefore, if a mass of people are genuinely sincere, it would be quite surprising (and quite suspicious) if they were all of one mind, all with the exactly the same narrowly defined goal. But Linux works. And Windows wouldn't work if MS didn't pay it's people to make it. Equally it is a bit odd being lectured on the evils of global capitalism by some teenager wearing a $150 pair of Nike trainers. In my experience (which might not apply here but I suspect it does), statements such as this are almost always vacant excuses to rationalize the dismissal of a point of view (without listening), in such a way that you don't have to question your own rationality. For example: 1) How do you know he was wearing $150 nike trainers? I have a pair of nike trainers that were purchased directly from sweatshop workers for fair price. (I never wear them cause nike wouldn't know style if it bit them on the nose, they were a gift). Or did you assume that since you didn't agree with him, he must be an ignorant hypocrite to be dismissed? 2) Did you pay enough attention to the lecture on the evils of global capitalism to find out if the particular evils that this particular teenager objected to, did, in fact, require that he not wear nike for some reason? Or did you just assume that since you didn't want to agree with him, he must be an ignorant hypocrite? 3) How do you know that he didn't aquire the shoes before he aquired his opinion on global capitalism? If they're as evil as you seem to think he should think they are, then he should at least get some wear out of them now that he's got them. 4) Do you know that he purchased the shoes? Is it possible that his grandmother, trying really hard to grok past the generation barrier, gave them to him as a gift and he feels that telling you about his views on capitalism is a better thing to do about it than to reject his grandmother's gift? Bottom line, (which may or may not apply to you, but certainly applies to a lot of people out there), finding flimsy reasons to dismiss an opinion you do not like, is not sufficient for anyone who likes to think of themselves as a rational being. But that's a great thing about having higher cognitive functions - you can rationalise away anything you Read the rest of this comment...

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by hearingaid (loki@citadel.twwol.dyndns.org) on Sunday November 18, @07:39PM (#2582516) (User #216439 Info | http://www.twwol.dyndns.org/)

The WTO is only going on the basis of copyright: it's not basing its claim on passing off or trademark laws. However, the objectionable statement you quote is: Much has been made lately of IBM's participation in the Holocaust. Indeed, IBM proactively and creatively helped the Nazis identify all of Germany's Jews, which in turn made possible the biggest slaughter of all time. I read the same statement, and took it as a straightforward parody. It's not, however, technically deceitful. IBM technology did help the Nazis identify Jews, and assisted them in the Holocaust. Read this. [cmht.com]

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by Zeinfeld on Sunday November 18, @09:20PM (#2582786) (User #263942 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

The WTO is only going on the basis of copyright: it's not basing its claim on passing off or trademark laws. What I said is that the WTO would have a good case according to three causes of action. I read the same statement, and took it as a straightforward parody I don't think that the Holocaust is a legitimate subject for that type of treatment. In effect it is accusing IBM of being complicit in Genocide. I don't find that type of accusation amusing. It is one thing to make that type of accusation under your own name, quite a different thing to make it under the pretense of being someone else. People have the right to make themselves look stupid. It is quite a different thing to put words into someone else's mouth to make them look stupid.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2, Insightful) by martyn s on Sunday November 18, @09:56PM (#2582916) (User #444964 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

The accusation makes it entirely clear to anyone who is remotely familiar with the WTO, that it's a parody. Whether you think the Holocaust is a legitimate subject for that type of treatment, or whether you find it amusing or not, has no bearing on this argument. Do you really understand what freedom of speech means? Whether it's clearly a parody or not isn't even the issue. Even if it might seem to someone that it's not a parody, they have every right to what they have up there, especially considering that it's all factual.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by hearingaid (loki@citadel.twwol.dyndns.org) on Monday November 19, @06:58AM (#2584020) (User #216439 Info | http://www.twwol.dyndns.org/)

I don't think that the Holocaust is a legitimate subject for that type of treatment. In effect it is accusing IBM of being complicit in Genocide. I don't find that type of accusation amusing. You're right, it's not amusing. It is however a reasonable accusation, and you don't have to go any further than the L.A. Times to find it. Man, this is old news. Get with it.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:5, Insightful) by Alan Cox (Guess 8)) on Sunday November 18, @12:56PM (#2581352) (User #27532 Info | http://www.linux.org.uk/diary)

Well let me see 1. Its not trademarked 2. Its satire which has a special place in copyright law 3. Its political speech. The WTO are trying to censor legitimate protest at their attempts to screw the planet.

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The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @01:26PM (#2581404)

See that weird red, blue and green globe symbol [gatt.org]?   That's trademarked. You can see it on the WTO website [wto.org], and they have a nice (specific) notice [wto.org] clearly indicating it is theirs.   I'm all for parody. But there is no need for parody to make use of actual trademark symbols, or even trademarked phrases. It is much more funny, and more clever besides. Here's one example [suck.com], in case you don't already know what I mean.   It's quite clear to me that the Yes Men are more interested in pissing off the WTO than in parody itself. This is not itself a crime, but replicating trademarks like that tends to fool people [nytimes.com] rather than to get the point across. The WTO has a legitimate complaint here.Trademark law is meant to protect consumers, not businesses, and (for once) the WTO seems to be using it completely legitimately. If the Yes Men aren't deliberately trying to fool the very people they are self-righteously trying to protect from the corporations, they should have no problem with getting off their duffs and altering the trademarked symbols on their website.

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Re:The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:1) by VP on Sunday November 18, @09:03PM (#2582732) (User #32928 Info)

Insightful, my posterior... Just last night in the US, Saturday Night Life made a parody of Dateline, a "news journal". Not only had they the trademarked logo of Dateline, they had a copy of the exact studio set... This is no different - parodies are allowed to use the logos and other publicly available material of the subject of the parody...

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Re:The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:1) by martyn s on Sunday November 18, @09:58PM (#2582924) (User #444964 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Umm, I appreciate your point, but Dateline is shown on NBC, as is SNL, so there is no conflict there.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @01:40PM (#2581427)

Well let me see 1. Its not trademarked   WRONG.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @01:53PM (#2581449)

IT's funny that you're saying this. Parody is an accepted part of the "fair use" defense in the US but not in England. Sure, we may have the DMCA now but in England this kind of parody would never have been legal.

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Parody from Alan Cox (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @03:53PM (#2581775)

The WTO are trying to censor legitimate protest at their attempts to screw the planet. That statement itself is a silly parody of the WTO that has nothing to do with its real aims.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Insightful) by Mike Schiraldi (mgs21@columbia.edu) on Sunday November 18, @04:11PM (#2581823) (User #18296 Info | http://sf.net/projects/hilite)

That's ridiculous. First, as others have pointed out, they are using the WTO's trademarked logo. Second, it's not clearly satire. Look at the site -- it looks just like the real thing. If i post a bunch of messages, claiming to be you, and then say, "Well, it's satire -- people should have been able to understand that the real Alan Cox wouldn't have said such crazy stuff," that's no defense, and it's fraud. If the site was obviously a parody, i'd support them. But it's not, and i don't.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Informative) by banuaba (drbork&hotmail,com) on Sunday November 18, @04:57PM (#2581949) (User #308937 Info)

that's actually incorrect. Remember Larry Flynt? He said that Jerry Falwell had fucked his mother. His (Flynt's) defense was "would a reasonable person believe that Jerry Falwell had actually fucked his mother" and, of course, the answer was no, therefore it was protected speech, not libel or slander or whichever one.

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2) by Mike Schiraldi (mgs21@columbia.edu) on Sunday November 18, @05:07PM (#2581992) (User #18296 Info | http://sf.net/projects/hilite)

But a reasonable person could glance through the gatt.org site and not realize what was going on.

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Huh? (Score:1) by santeri (santeri@vegetarians_do_without_spam.iki.fi) on Sunday November 18, @06:08PM (#2582187) (User #91589 Info | http://www.iki.fi/santeri/)

But a reasonable person could glance through the gatt.org site and not realize what was going on. Random example from the http://www.gatt.org/ [gatt.org] site: "Modern" free-market theory, in which goods must be free to travel unhindered, is little changed from the teachings of Adam Smith and David Ricardo, who wrote two hundred years ago, in Britain, under conditions entirely different from those of the present. There is still no statistical reason to believe that this theory works, but corporations have many selfish economic reasons to make it the law. English is not your first language, then?

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Re:Huh? (Score:1) by -Harlequin- on Sunday November 18, @11:20PM (#2583135) (User #169395 Info)

English is not your first language, then? He's probably American :-) --- --- (The differently-humoured please note: That was a JOKE people, no need to take it personally or flame off about it. As it happens, I also live in the USA. And I feel somewhat depressed that I should feel like I should probably write this kind of disclaimer on /. :-)

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Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1) by 4D.uk (4D@post.com) on Sunday November 18, @07:43PM (#2582527) (User #246488 Info)

Look at the site -- it looks just like the real thing. Nice try, but it [gatt.org] actually looks nothing like the "real thing" [wto.org]. I think I could tell the two apart even if I was quite a large distance from my monitor. Perhaps by the "real thing" you meant "a professionally produced website". If so I agree; they've done a good job.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1) by _xeno_ on Sunday November 18, @04:20PM (#2581840) (User #155264 Info | http://slashdot.org/~_xeno_/ | Last Journal: Saturday November 17, @11:17PM)

Three posts in one day from Alan Cox?  Are you really that bored or has someone hijacked your account?  Or maybe you're moving to karma whoring?  :P (Actually, it would seem that Alan is starting to take an active position on Internet / Digital rights - and that he's becoming more of an obsessive /. reader than I am!)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

"The WTO are trying to censor" (Score:2) by wytcld on Sunday November 18, @06:00PM (#2582171) (User #179112 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Oddly, the WTO is a step beyond democratic: it operates only by complete concensus among members - a bit like a Quaker meeting. If a single representative of a member government disagrees with one if its proposals, it doesn't go through. This means that each WTO action has the consent of most national governments on the planet. Now, who would suggest that there is not a single WTO-member government that favors legitimate protest to the degree of dissenting from this action and thus removing the complete concensus of member governments which is the WTO's only authorization to act? Does every single government favor surrendering the rights of its people in the name of "free" trade? Preposterous! If that's the case then "free" is just a cover word for tyranny - and Microsoft has every reason to sound the alarm at the rise of "free" software....

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:"The WTO are trying to censor" (Score:3, Insightful) by nagora (tww@[the-bit-before-the-@-again].cx) on Monday November 19, @05:31AM (#2583908) (User #177841 Info)

You are confusing "government" with "people". Governments are small (in this case very small) numbers of people who's only contact with democracy, if any, is every four to five years in their own home country. These people know that most of their electorate have no knowledge or even interest in what they do at WTO meetings. They do know, on the other hand, that they're going to have to work with the others at the meeting, in some cases on a daily basis, between now and the next election. Under those circumstances it is much more likely that everyone will agree rather than rock the boat. Protesting about things which, after all, rarely affect the politicians' lives, for no gain in their own elections while causing a lot of irritation in their working lives is just not something humans of the sort that enter politics do. Also remember how much the various protests have affected the lives of those at the meetings: not at all. With layers of armed guards around them, why should the WTO people care about the protesters? That leaves the WTO to only sort out the publication aspects of protest (the web, newspapers, books etc.) in order for everyone involved to have a quiet life, which is mainly what venal people like politicians really want. TWW

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:"The WTO are trying to censor" (Score:1) by Peter Harris on Monday November 19, @05:52AM (#2583946) (User #98662 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Oddly, the WTO is a step beyond democratic: it operates only by complete concensus among members - a bit like a Quaker meeting. Yeah, right. A bit like an evil Quaker meeting. When the Quaker method works it's because a group of people gather to seek out God's will/the right thing to do/the truth, in humility. Don't confuse this with a group of wealthy countries (or rather, the bought and paid for pet governments of wealthy corporations), seeking a way to consolidate their power. And if the USA or UK (to name but two of the said governments) stand up for legitimate protest, how come they have f**k all to say about Turkey's human rights record? I think you'll find that governments have no real problem with surrendering the rights of people in general. Too angry to post coherently, sorry.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @07:09PM (#2582411)

mod this filthy hippie down! I know you moderators love the celeb comments but he is clearly misinformed and spreading FUD here. It is your duty to mod him (then me) down now!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @08:07PM (#2582597)

C'mon people. Let's defend intelligence. You call Gatt.org confusing and misleading? Did you think Swift's "Modest Proposal" was immoral, too? Symbols of copyright should remain within the legal domain of the social satirist. These signs are language; why should they be afforded special protection?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

The cases are totally different (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @12:32AM (#2583314)

Swift did not represent his satirical opinions as anyone's but his own.   If Swift had written "A Modest Proposal" to look like an official proclamation from King George I, Swift's head would've been off in a week or so.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @01:12PM (#2581377)

"First they came for the Jews. I was silent. I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists. I was silent. I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists. I was silent. I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me." - Martin Niemoeler

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @04:02PM (#2581802)

+1 in The Unfounded Accusations of Evil Game [voicesofunreason.com]!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2, Funny) by Mojojojo Monkey Inc. on Sunday November 18, @01:38PM (#2581423) (User #174471 Info)

If a corporation wants to take down trademarked material, they simply submit the site to slashdot, and it's gone 5 minutes later.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:/.ed (Score:1) by meatplow on Sunday November 18, @01:58PM (#2581465) (User #184288 Info | http://www.meatplow.com/)

Grab the files from here. yesiwill-1.0.tar.gz [meatplow.com] yesiwill-1.0.zip [meatplow.com] Long Live Sarcasm

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

http://detritus.net/projects/yesiwill [detritus.net]

Let's see how well they survive a slashdotting.

Re:Here are mirrors: (Score:2) by Saint Aardvark on Sunday November 18, @12:45PM (#2581328) (User #159009 Info | http://www.saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/)

And you can download the files here, too: http://saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/yesiwill/index.html [saintaardv...rpeted.com]

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Google whoring (Score:2) by hearingaid (loki@citadel.twwol.dyndns.org) on Sunday November 18, @12:52PM (#2581343) (User #216439 Info | http://www.twwol.dyndns.org/)

Go here. [google.com] I can feel not-guilty about posting this, karmacap boy that I am. :)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Think before you mod: is it really offtopic..?

... How do we at the WTO fit in? Well, that's easy: We want to help you acieve those dollar results. We want to help make sure that nothing - protectionism, worry, even violence against physical property - stands in the way of your dollar results.

... CAUSES OF THE CIVIL WAR: PROTECTIONISM
[Slide: Freedom]
Why did people fight and die and lose money? It comes down to one word: FREEDOM.
[Slide: Southern Happiness]
By the 1860s, the South was utterly flush with cash. It had recently benefited from the cotton gin, an invention that took the seeds out of cotton and the South out of its preindustrial past. Hundreds of thousands of workers, previously unemployed in their countries of origin, were given useful jobs in textiles. Into this rosy picture of freedom and boom stepped ... you guessed it: the NORTH.

Now, we all known that not even the best workplace design can help even the most astute manage keep track odf hstaff. But our solution inables a lot more rapport with remote workers.
Mike, would you please?
[Unruh steps out from behind the podium to a drum roll. An assistant grabs him by the tie and belt and rips off his suit to reveal a golden spandex unitard underneath.]
Ah! That's better! This is the Management Leisure suit. This is the WTO's answer to the problems of maintaining rapport with distant workers and maintaining one's own mental health as a manager with the proper amount of leisure. How does the MLS work, besides being comfortable? Allow me to describe the suit's core features.
[Unruh unzips the from of the suit, then pulls on a rip cord that inflates a three-foot-long golden phallus. The audience claps.]

The presentation, which Harper's describes as "well-received", was subsequently praised by the MC on three seperate occasions that day.

(I want to be a yes man :)

Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @01:48PM (#2581440)

Try this version of slashdot! [rinkworks.com] And this is different from normal SlashDot HOW??? woof.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @02:08PM (#2581498)

> Try this version of slashdot! [rinkworks.com] > And this is different from normal SlashDot HOW??? It actually makes more sense. ;-)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1) by reo_kingu (s[ ]dotted@axe.org ['lash' in gap]) on Sunday November 18, @01:48PM (#2581441) (User #536791 Info | http://www.axe.org/)

Wahahaha, good stuff. Gotta love the good old dialectizer. UR RIGHTS ONLNE: BMG BAX0RS DOWN OVER CPOY-PROETCTED CD hehehe, couldn't have done it better myself.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:2) by trilucid (philip.paradis@trilucid.com) on Sunday November 18, @01:57PM (#2581462) (User #515316 Info | http://www.trilucid.com/)

Wow :), maybe we should re-write our site to say everything is 31337 H4x0r-5p34kz... I actually like the effect. Back to my k-r4d perl h4x1ng...

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Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1) by rsborg on Sunday November 18, @04:38PM (#2581872) (User #111459 Info)

I like how it translated "Gamecube" to "waR3Zcube"... LOL Now, that's an idea! :-)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Jesus Jermaine Christ! I Killed Whitey! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @11:58PM (#2583226)

You, sir, are my hero.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:2) by trilucid (philip.paradis@trilucid.com) on Sunday November 18, @03:44PM (#2581743) (User #515316 Info | http://www.trilucid.com/)

From the Pornolized version of Slashdot: -------------- the_code_poet asks: "I'm a lead developer for a software development company, and one of my responsibilities has been writing an installer for our product (of which Linux is one of the titty fucking enters). In keeping with UNIX tradition, the cuntlapping installer is written in shell (thrusts /bin/sh), but as many of you know there is no Bourne shell for Linux - only bash. This has caused inconsistencies (mostly barfs in bash) when writing a generic UNIX sh script that works fine on commerical *NIX's." For a semi-complete list of gamahuches between bash and sh, you will want to check out section C1 of the fingerfucking Bourne "Cock Sucker" Again Shell FAQ. To be honest, I have yet to run into much trouble with a muff sniffing script cuntlapping with #!/bin/sh with /bin/bash, and I've been using the latter for fingerfucks. If any of you have had problems ballbusted to this, please tell us what the cocksucking problem was and how you solved it. Also: would anyone out there be interested in writing a real Bourne "Plugin" Shell for Linux? -------------- That is freaking beautiful :). This has got to be one of the funniest "tools" I've seen in a LONG time, and executed supremely well. My hat is off to those guys/gals that did this... Now, how long until the trolls start posting nasty versions of stuff in jest? There's always the Pornolized Christian Coalition site [pornolize.com] for extra giggles. ;)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1) by Smoking on Sunday November 18, @04:09PM (#2581820) (User #24594 Info | http://www.home.ch/~spaw1653/quentin)

You really gotta try "pornolizing" the microsoft site... [pornolize.com] The Windows XP product page made me spew my coffee!!

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Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1) by trilucid (philip.paradis@trilucid.com) on Sunday November 18, @04:53PM (#2581928) (User #515316 Info | http://www.trilucid.com/)

Ohmigosh, you've gotta see the Lab Report page: Here It Be [pornolize.com]. Long live parody site generation engines! :)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @01:22AM (#2583416)

it gets better than that. I followed the link into the Christian coalition page. I then went to the FreedomISP link ... an ISP with an anti porn filter. Now this read is priceless.... The following link is not for the faint of heart http://www.pornolize.com/cgi-bin/pornolize2/pornolize2.cgi?lang=en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcc.org%2Fnetaccess%2Findex.html [pornolize.com]

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1) by trilucid (philip.paradis@trilucid.com) on Monday November 19, @03:38AM (#2583720) (User #515316 Info | http://www.trilucid.com/)

For God's sake MODERATORS PLEASE MOD PARENT UP! :D. This has got to be the funniest shit I've ever seen. Here's my favorite excerpts from the ponolized version: "10% Gangbangs "Pimp Mastah" To Support "Butplug" Your Christian "Son of a whore" Coalition." "Simply complete the unclefucking form below and sign up for totally clean FreedomISP service." "ACTIONALERTS directly from Christian "Ass-stitcher" Coalition's sucking team on CapitolHill" That last one echoes sentiments I've had for a long, long time now... Web hosting by geeks, for geeks. Now starting at $4/month (USD)! [trilucid.com] Yes, this is my protest to the sig char limit :).

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @09:43PM (#2582869)

Yeah, I remember this page. I once ran /. thru the askjesus.com page (gone?), and then ran that thru pornolize.com. The results was absolutely hilarious. I musta pulled several muscles laughing at it.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Microsoft (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @02:27PM (#2581537)

excellent post. someone please mod it up '+5, Funny'

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Re:Microsoft (Score:1) by t_allardyce on Sunday November 18, @03:56PM (#2581783) (User #48447 Info)

what? they can't do that? how? with most users* running their software, and some anon. donations to judges/politicians... thats the reason why windows is closed - because the code to do this and change the underlaying protocals are all dorment, hidden in every version of windows that regularly net-updates. When they decide, overnight the internet will change - servers will refuse connections from non-windows machines. entire websites will automatically be 'updated' to use the new executable package technology, MSN will become the defualt dial-up connection and all other dun profiles will be deleted. Linus Torvalds will be turned to for a press conference for his views.. but wait, where is Torvalds????!! he has gone, been taken care of. (outstanding favour from the government to billy g for anon. donations). People turn to demonstrations but wait! slashdot is not working, no one can communicate: email??? gone irc??? gone. Be afraid... be very afraid This conspiracy theory is purely fiction and in no way factual. Any resemblence to real life situations is purely coincidence. Microsoft(tm) is a registered trade mark of Capitalist Pigs corp. Any spelling mistakes in this post are the result of not giving a shit

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

I made a parody, visit here [unc.edu] to see (it probably won't be up too long...). Finally, you can also get the code in the directory mentioned above, if you are having trouble finding a mirror. Retrieve yesiwill-1.0.tar.gz

• Greg

Re:Two-Timed by Slashdot (Score:1) by Jailbrekr (cha, right.) on Sunday November 18, @03:40PM (#2581736) (User #73837 Info | http://www.digitaladdiction.net/)

And this is why I stopped submitting stories. I rather enjoyed researching and authoring a nice paragraph for submission, but after being rejected a number of times, and seeing similar stories pop up by other submittors, I can no longer be bothered. This place is a sellout :(

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haven't you ever thought? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @04:51PM (#2581920)

that great minds think alike. you have to be first, or you have to have said it a lot better than the first.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:haven't you ever thought? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @05:16PM (#2582021)

...or blow an editor regularly.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:2) by m0nkyman (thom@idar.com) on Sunday November 18, @04:06PM (#2581811) (User #7101 Info | http://www.aptenobytes.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday August 18, @01:47PM)

Your post gave me hope. Thank You.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:3, Insightful) by haruharaharu on Sunday November 18, @04:50PM (#2581914) (User #443975 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

if people that are opposing it are already rich It isn't that the people who oppose this are rich. It's just that only those who are rich can afford to protest regularly all over the world. I'm sure alot of the people who oppose this would love to make hemselves heard, but they have to work at a job most of the time so they can eat. I especially like the part you quoted where someone on gatt said that, basically, you can't defend people in third world nations because you're richer than they are.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:2) by Spy Hunter on Sunday November 18, @05:24PM (#2582046) (User #317220 Info | http://www.atheos.cx/ | Last Journal: Tuesday August 28, @12:42AM)

now I realize that 10,000s of people can't all be wrong... One word - *NSync.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:1) by BreakWindows on Sunday November 18, @05:24PM (#2582049) (User #442819 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

I mean... what the hell?? is that all real? I mean I'm used to lying politician, backstabbing authority figures, and all that stuff, but I mean, putting such things on a front page has really shocked me, I can't beleive people can be that openly materialistic and use historic stuff and lie without raising a LOT of opposition... In answer to your question: It's a parody. Jokes, not real.. However, this isn't too far off the real WTO and IMF/World Bank practices, so it wouldn't shock me.   Basically, these people are like student loans times 1000, to the world. They'll give you money to take care of an immediate crisis in your underdeveloped nation, and in return you only have to pay them back. Of course, they want to be paid back at HUGE rates, that these countries cannot possible afford to pay, and oftentimes never agreed to anyway. So, instead, these countries become slaves to the IMF, and instead of taking care of their nation, they have to produce crops/exports/Nike shoes for their corporate sponsors. The WTO basically wants corporations to be able to act as sovereign nations, exempt from national laws, and they'll dig up any cheapshots possible, including forcing South Africa, where there is a horrifying AIDS epidemic (about 1 in 10 have it), to stop using a knock-off treatment, to instead pay ten times more for the commercial brand. Sure, it may kill a few (thousand) persons, but Pfizer will get more money than they already have! Hooray! It'll kill millions of people, create and promote sweatshops and worker exploitation, allow some corporate lords to abuse their power....but on the other hand, I imagine General Electric will increase profits, and a strong economy matters more than everyone's basic human rights anyway. You can expect to see stories similar to gatt.org's on a national television station owned by GE, Microsoft, Disney or AOL/Time Warner...only they won't be kidding. Now do you see why all those protesters were so pissed, and came from so many differant backgrounds (I knew some anarchist squatters and rich suburban types who went, and claim to have met factory workers and "hippies" in the same crowd) ?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Oh... think I look stupid now haha :) (Score:2) by tcc (teeceecee@nospam.hotmail.com) on Sunday November 18, @05:27PM (#2582056) (User #140386 Info)

Ok... seems like I didn't get the part with "it's a parody site" :).. good thing I don't have that huge-ass ego :) I must say, it's VERY well done got fooled big time, hehehe, but the serious part is: IT DID ITs JOB!... sensibilise the people to their cause... it worked 100% on me. Either it shows how much I don't trust my leaders (by beleiving they could go that far for real), or I am a complete dumbass... or both :)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:1) by kaladorn on Sunday November 18, @08:10PM (#2582606) (User #514293 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

Maybe you aren't a dumbass. Maybe it shows what happens when some site more or less impersonates another. Truth is a matter of debate most times. There are multiple views. But somebody pointed out that obvious parody is protected under law. Apparently this isn't entirely obvious parody. It might verge on (though not actually be) malicious impersonation. If I can control the images you see, the text you read, and the information you have access to, then I can affect your perceptions. In this case, it is being done for protest. But what could be innocent protest could equally be manipulation. Although the WTO is no panacea of righteousness, in this case, I think they are in the right to object. Put up a big front end on the other site pointing out that it is parody and I could live with it. We can't rely on the "obvious parody" defence, because it isn't and people are easily lead astray. And as someone who saw some of what went on in downtown Ottawa at the G-20, I have to say there were a number of people who went their with violence in mind. You don't show up in ballistic protective gear, a gas mask, a balaclava, etc. if you aren't ready for trouble. (And NO, this isn't the police riot squad I'm talking about....). And smashing the crap out of a McDonalds outlet and some other stores is beating up some businessman and probably won't do much to McDonalds' bottom line. The media went to interview some of the protesters. They refused to speak on camera. When asked why, they said "the media always gets it wrong" to which the media person replied "here's the mike - you tell your story in your words." They wouldn't. They asked another girl about why she was wearing a bandana, running with the rougher groups of protestors, and wouldn't give her name. Her answer? "It's fun!". The Ottawa police didn't lay many charges and didn't lay into the hooligans even when they damaged property. They showed remarkable restraint and the prosecutors are laying light charges against those they did take into custody. AFAICS, this is just like saying "we don't want to appear heavy handed.... too bad for all the businesses affected". Not what I hope for in a government, if I'm a small business person. And one of the protest organizers was complaining about the government not housing the protesters. He said "They decided to host the conference, which means they decided to host these protests too. They should be housing us." Pardon? The only place they should house people who smash shop windows and assault police is behind bars. And the rest of them who protest peacefully should be allowed to, but certainly not housed. But what did the politically-sensitive Ottawa Council and our dork of a Mayor do? Took over hundreds of hotel rooms at taxpayers expense to house the rabble. Lovely... just lovely.... Remind me again why these protests are a good thing?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:1) by texty (l-h-@-f-r-e-e-m-a-i-l-.-c-o-m) on Sunday November 18, @08:55PM (#2582714) (User #148891 Info)

To remind you why they're a good (or important) thing it would be necessary for you to be able to see a little bit beyond the immediate problems of your circle of acquaintances/community/town. This is about whole nations of people being exploited for the purpose of making even more money for a very small number of people who are already fantastically rich. Open your eyes.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:3, Interesting) by The Cookie Monster (slashdot.account@the-bordello.com_remove_for_spam) on Monday November 19, @12:27AM (#2583304) (User #129545 Info)

So what you're saying is that because a few hooligans turned up to start a riot and have some fun, none of the other protesters were there for any legitimate reason? I hadn't heard of people comming pre-dressed for battle before (but then I don't pay much attentiont to the protests). I'm open to the possibility that there might be a group of protesters who actually think that violence will promote their cause rather than contaminate it, but anyone who isn't the police and actually turns up to a protest in ballistic protective gear, a gas mask, and a balaclava, strikes me as being there (paid even) specifically to discredit the entire protest movement as 'just a bunch of hooligans'. here's the mike - you tell your story in your words." They wouldn't. And neither would I, the problems with gobalisation are complex and we live in a sound bite generation. The reporter will choose the most sensational sentence - or even fraction of a sentence and air that (normally completely out of context). You know this is true. If you have no editorial control, you cannot tell your story in your own words. I hear protesters have cottened onto how poor a job the media do and have started bring their own video cameras to protests. Good on them. However, as much as I like the angle this parody site is presenting the WTO views from, I do have to agree with you that the WTO probably has a legitimate complaint here.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @07:35PM (#2582502)

(policemen are people like you and me, just doing what they are told to, hitting them won't make things better) No, policemen are not like you and me. They are policemen. We are not policemen. They don't have to be policemen; they can find other jobs. They have not found other jobs because they want to do the things that policemen do. A thing that policemen do is shoot us in the head.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:this is very scary.... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @12:06AM (#2583244)

I wanna be a police-man so I can beat smelly hippies around the head with a big black stick. Also, riot gear looks sexy.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

It's really not much different from similar sites by indymedia and others; all are nothing but lies.

Just what we need; more violent thugs fired up by misinformation beating up people, destroying businesses, and trying to "shut down" meetings that they do not like (so much for rights of free speech and assembly: if you don't like someone's meeting; organize a protest to "shut it down".)

Michael Moore is one busy guy (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @04:04PM (#2581807)

This site does shed some light on Michael Moore, who is quite busy directing GATT, and also has time to stick it to Roger Smith of GM and put out those hilarious "TV Nation" shows.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

TROLL!!! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @04:51PM (#2581919)

That message above was a TROLL. Nader won the last election with 88% of the vote. The IWW has had control of the US Congress for the last 75 years. The US tax rate has topped 93% and there are mass demonistrations to increase taxes. Every time the WTO meets, there are tens of millions of protesters on the site and all commerce shuts down worldwide. It just isn't possible that anyone at all could object to the well reasoned progressive views of the anti-GATT protesters, which are held by the vast majority of all people.

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Re:TROLL!!! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @06:29PM (#2582267)

OMG, is that satire, troll, or escaped lunatic? If that's satire, it's funny as heck because it sounds so much like some of the real activists. If it's not, someone needs a serious reality check. It's comments like these and the far left's abandonment of non-violent protest principles that keep anti-WTO protesters from having any shred of respect from the average person. I mean, how can you expect me to think Nader won when EVERYONE that I know offline voted for Bush or Gore? Commerce shut down worldwide? Then why hasn't anything happened in my city? This is typical of the BS from the protesters, and I'm amazed that there were enough people sympathetic to it to get Nader more than 1% of the vote. I've always been conservative and only lately have begun to see liberal views I can agree with on certain issues regarding corporations, such as copyright issues, the Microsoft anti-trust case, and campaign finance reform. I voted for McCain in the primaries, but as long as I continue to hear this type of rhetoric I'll never vote for a Gore or Nader. At least I haven't heard anyone refer to Oceania as a real government yet....

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Re:TROLL!!! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @12:08AM (#2583254)

Oceania will never be recognised as a real goverment by left-wing homosexuals like you.

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incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off base (Score:2, Interesting) by fortinbras47 on Sunday November 18, @07:37PM (#2582512) (User #457756 Info)

There are two main themes I have noticed with the anti-globalization movement. First, they have no alternative. The entire movement is defined by what it is against, not by what it is for. Second, large sections of the movement have no qualms with using false arguments and violence to advance their agenda. For example, the anti-trade (supposed parody) gatt.org flatly accuses AIDS drug manufacturers of genocide. Saying that creators of drugs which cure AIDS actually are killing people afflicted with the disease is not only audacious, but logicaly incoherent. However, gatt.org does not let facts get in the way. The anti-globalization protests have PRETENDED to be non-violent (and indeed some groups are). However, there are a large number of groups which have no qualms with blatant destruction and violence, and even more groups tolerate those groups and are thus tacitly complicit. If the movement really was non-violent, why are so many police needed to prevent full scale riots like Seattle? And when violence does occur, members of the movement engage again in misinformation by blaming the police. Last time I checked, it wasn't the police who were looting stores and setting cars ablaze. If one actually watches the news in detail, the protestor who was shot in Genoa was killed as he was attempting to hurl a fire extinguisher at the head of a policeman. (Sounds pretty close to attempted 2nd degree murder to me.) Members of the anti-globalization movement at the BARE MINIMUM must confront why their message and method is so attractive to violent thugs.

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Re:incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off bas (Score:2, Informative) by Kwil on Monday November 19, @03:13AM (#2583662) (User #53679 Info)

First, they have no alternative. The entire movement is defined by what it is against, not by what it is for. .. or at least, that's what being spoon-fed your information by the mainstream media would make you believe. Is the movement coherent in what it wants? No. But some of the things that have been demanded include: Fair Trade as opposed to Free Trade, environmental protection clauses built into the agreements, social welfare concerns such as decent labor laws being recognized as valid points for discussion and inclusion, debt relief for developing nations, transparency of the negotiations, democratic input, enforcement of human rights, etc. The anti-globalization movement is composed of many different groups, each with its own agenda and methods. Some of them agree, some of them don't. As with any populist movement, it is one made up of diverse people, opinions, and ideas that have coalesced around a common thread: Globalization as it's happening now is not working. Second, large sections of the movement have no qualms with using false arguments and violence to advance their agenda. Again, this is an unfortunate misconception based on relying entirely on the mainstream media for information on the subject. The truth is actually the reverse. However peaceful protests make for boring video and the truthful arguments are complex and don't condense neatly into a fifteen second sound-byte for the evening news. If anything, it could be easily argued that those who use the most violence and false arguments to advance their agenda are those that favor the unfettered globalization process we see happening today. Fortunately for them, the violence often takes place in the developing nations affected by the agreements -- places where reporters are not hanging around looking for a story. Members of the anti-globalization movement at the BARE MINIMUM must confront why their message and method is so attractive to violent thugs. I'm not one to argue that there are idiots who like to use protests as cover for simply being assholes and wrecking things. But it's not just this movement's message and method that attracts these people, you get the same morons at soccer games, outdoor music festivals and other public gatherings. When it happens during these other events though it's generally somewhat separated from the centre of a city where major damage can be caused, and the news tends not to lump them in with the rest of the people who are present. At the protests, it's typically the opposite on both counts. Check out www.indymedia.org for a different take on your nightly news. You may not agree with their viewpoint, but at least you'll be exposed to a different one than normal.

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Re:incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off bas (Score:1) by fortinbras47 on Monday November 19, @05:37AM (#2583920) (User #457756 Info)

I would still say that the anti-globalization movement does not have a coherent message. I would likely to briefly examine the so called fair trade slogan and then compare the effects of globalization to those of technology. The movement is an amalgam of the old socialist left, environmentalists, unions, and a variety of groups focussed on different kinds of "rights." You mentioned "Fair Trade," decent labor laws, debt relief, and transparency of negotiations. I would like to agree that transparency in trade talks is a good idea, and one would be hardpressed to find good reasons against it. That said, the other terms are massively unclear. Each group has their own agenda (and often disproved, especially in the case of the old socialist left). Their conjunction is in fact literally a baseless jumble. I remember listenning during the election to an African American member of Congress at the Democratic Convention. He was fairly critical of the protests and rememberred back to the civil rights movement. His comment was that the civil rights movement had a base, it had support in communities, it gatherred this local support for larger things, but it was always present and had a coherent and undeniable message. The current anti-globalization protests can not come together except for large trade talks and then can only really agree to disagree. They do not have "a base" of support. I don't think fair trade has much actual usefullness other than as a catchy buzzword. From a union standpoint, the gameplan is obvious. Increase trade barriers so as to make importation of textiles and other products unattractive. Call it fair trade, call it whatever, just try to sell it. Other groups might advocate "fair trade" plainly for the benefit of the people supposedly being taken advantage of. The two man problems with this is that Rome wasn't built in a day and that the people supposedly being helped don't want the trade restrictions. The reasons people would be willing to work for low wages in Vietnam is because among options, the foreign factory is the best. Call it unfair, but if Nike had to pay the same wages in Vietnam as in the US, Nike obviously would never go to Vietnam. The next and even greater problem is that the nations themselves want free trade. I believe it was Zedillo, the former President of Mexico, who said something along the lines of, "The developped world is full of people trying to save the undevelopped world from development." It is no coincidence that northern Mexico is far more developped and richer than southern Mexico. If free trade really were the scourge, one would expect a different outcome. And from an environmental standpoint, people begin to care about the environment when they get rich. When a family is trying to get food just for the next day, they could care less about the forest and the water. However, once someone is wealthy enough so that food, shelter, and simple pleasures aren't an issue, he/she will begin to care a great deal more about the environment. Again it's no concidence that the world's environmentalists by far reside in Europe, Canada, and the United States. If one wants Mexico to care too, the solution is to make the Mexicans rich, and do it as fast as possible.     Far too often, I think the environmentalist movement behind the scenes attempts to retard development from the cynical standpoint that if Mexicans lived better and had cars, they would consumer more gas, emit more CO2. The solution from this false viewpoint is to erect barriers to development. Whether this enters the minds of those opposing trade or not, it is the effect. The most important issue in the globalization basket I think is free trade. Much of the selling of free trade is done on grounds that aren't quite honest. Does free trade create jobs? yes, but it destroys some too, the net effect is probably close to a wash. What free trade does though is allow people to give up less of what they have to get more of what they want. Like tec Read the rest of this comment...

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Free trade is fair trade (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @08:15AM (#2584176)

Free trade IS fair trade: as it is "free" (unrestricted) each person decides whether or not the trade is fair and whether or not to participate. The "fair trade" you speak of is really "fair" only in the view of the governments that force their views on the people involved. I rely on the "alternative" media for most of the information I get on the anti-globalists: the words from their own mouths make them look as bad as Fortinbras claims; worse than anything that the "mainstream media" can do. I was against these anti-trade nazis before I turned to www.indymedia.org. When I went to www.indymedia.org, I found a fiery blast of hate and lies that made me turn even more against them.

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Re:incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off bas (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19, @09:20AM (#2584376)

> Last time I checked, it wasn't the police who were looting stores and setting cars ablaze.... Genoa.... You probably missed it, since it took two weeks to hit the mainstream U.S. news and then didn't get the coverage it deserved, but it was the police, in Genoa, who clubbed a hundred protestors bloody in the Diaz school the night after the main protests. The protestors had been sleeping when the police charged in. They offered no resistance. What will you say--they had offensive body odor?

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Re:Of course the easy out is: (Score:2) by Quila on Monday November 19, @03:57AM (#2583750) (User #201335 Info)

It's already speech, and therefore wouldn't get any more protection classified as code. And considering that a court has already deemed code not to be speech (2600) in addition to those that have, who knows which view would prevail in the end. You may end up attaching your free speech argument to a sinking ship.

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Re:Misconstruing the facts... (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @05:20PM (#2582031)

just so. Solving problems isn't the goal, its the advertising you put out to get people to help you achieve your REAL goals. In this case, discrediting anyone with a factual objection to raise, by association if nothing else.

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So what else is new? (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @07:17PM (#2582439)

The anti-trade goons are fueled by lies from left-wing demagogues (and Pat Buchanan) little different from the intentional parody at gatt.org

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Check out the www.microsoft.com parody site (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, @07:22PM (#2582452)

Imagine there was a linuxkernel.org which looked exactly like the REAL kernel.org but gave out kernels patched to provide root access on port 80. Never mind fakey little www.lynucks-colonel.org sites. There is a little web site called www.microsoft.com where you can download nasty "upgrades" to your system including a spyware package called Windows Media Player, a worm program that can wreck your hard disk called "Outlook", a patch called Windows XP that periodically drains your credit card and causes many programs not to work, and lots of other evil little programs that no self-respecting real web site would be cault providing.

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Re:Check out the www.microsoft.com parody site (Score:1) by fortinbras47 on Sunday November 18, @07:43PM (#2582529) (User #457756 Info)

Your comment does not actually rebut my analysis =) microsoft.com is trademarked by Microsoft and is understood as such. The Microsoft trademark conveys certain information on a products quality and stability, which for you apparently means blatantly destructive (not sure I agree here but you're entitled to your opinion). When you download a package from microsoft.com, you are NOT being fooled.

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Re:do you think most people realize it's a parody? (Score:2) by Quila on Monday November 19, @03:44AM (#2583735) (User #201335 Info)

A good parody looks a lot like the original, but has commentary on the original within. Just look at Larry Flynt's Campari ad with Jerry Falwell. It looked like a Campari ad, and read like one too, but the content was obviously contrary to the agenda of someone. Notice that Campari didn't even bother to sue, just Falwell, and he lost. This site looks very WTO-ish, and that's good, the first part of a parody. Then start reading the text and realize that what they say is completely contrary to the WTO's beliefs. Based on precedent, I am sure the Supreme Court would uphold this one too.

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Re:do you think most people realize it's a parody? (Score:1) by MrFredBloggs on Monday November 19, @06:41AM (#2584006) (User #529276 Info)

"Examining the site, I would realize it is not the true WTO site, but MANY people are not as well informed" I went there and didnt get it. Just looks like a boring website to me. Certainly it didnt make me laugh, or even smile. It looks *nothing* like wto.org, which presumably is what its supposed to be a parody of. Strange. Someone has a LOT of time on their hands, and little to no sense of humour.

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Re:This is not a question of free speech (Score:3, Insightful) by metis on Monday November 19, @01:24AM (#2583419) (User #181789 Info)

It is not clearly a parody, and is effectively putting words into the mouth of the body it's targetting. Putting offensive words in people's mouth is a good definition of parody. Have you watched late night shows lately? Besides, if the words are so offensive that you know they couldn't have been said by the WTO, then it is a clear parody. Alternatively, if you are not sure that it is the parody then either the words are not really so offensive You believe that the WTO can make such offensive comment in earnest. In the second case this isn't just parody but world class top of-the-line fscking Jonathan Swift kind of parody.

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Re:This is not a question of free speech (Score:2) by jejones on Monday November 19, @05:43AM (#2583931) (User #115979 Info)

In the US, at least, once you're a "public figure," you're fair game, and it's almost impossible for a "public figure" to win any sort of slander or libel suit.

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I hope VA Linux doesn't make me take this down!

Check out:
Smurfdot [mrsodaoverload.com] and
Thunderslash [mrsodaoverload.com]

Re:Real Time Slashdot Parodies (Score:1) by Motheius on Monday November 19, @03:01AM (#2583638) (User #449386 Info)

Why would anyone want to use IPX? Even Novell has decided this was a bad protocol to use...

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Most TMs share its name or initials with others... (Score:2) by Garry Anderson on Monday November 19, @08:03AM (#2584146) (User #194949 Info | http://www.skilful.com/)

e.g. The initials WTO are trademarked 6 times in the U.S. ALONE [uspto.gov] - please check yourselves in the other 200+ countries. Most trademarks share its name or initials with many others. When authorities could put trademark identity beyond shadow of doubt, they are either devoid of intelligence or corrupt. Do not accept the LIES of Government and the authorities - question them. The United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO.org) and the United States Department of Commerce (DOC.gov) are hiding the simple solution to trademark and domain name problem. Please visit WIPO.org.uk [wipo.org.uk] to see it.

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