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Democracy (Score:1,
Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 08, @04:01AM
EST (#3)
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Why, in a democratic society, should anti-trade
groups feel they have to con a trade conference? Should they not be
able to present their views in the open? Seems to me that there
might more progress if the WTO listened to speakers who opposed
their viewpoint and the anti-trade groups tried talking instead of
providing a venue for looters.
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- Re:Democracy
by SpacePunk (Score:1) Monday
January 08, @09:47AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by teatime (Score:1) Monday
January 08, @10:27AM EST
- The
WTO is not "in the open"... by fmaxwell (Score:1) Monday January 08, @11:10AM
EST
- Re:Democracy
by Confound (Score:1) Tuesday
January 09, @03:07PM EST
Re:Democracy
(Score:5, Informative) by Cody Hatch (cody@chaos.net.nz) on Monday January 08,
@07:19AM EST (#69) (User
#136430 Info) http://chaos.net.nz/
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By the way, I still don't know what
the supposed benefits of a nation joining the W.T.O. are, or
what the drawbacks to not joining are supposed to be.
That's simple. The point of the WTO is a mechanism for
"bargaining" down trade barriers--and enforcing the
bargains, once struck. The US says that it will drop tarrifs
on wine, if the EU drops tarrifs on beef, let's say. The US
could unilterally drop tarrifs on wine and be done with
it--but the WTO exists to allow the US to trade that drop
for another one.
That's the main reason why countries want to be
in--particularly developing countries, which are desperate
for lower tarrifs on agricultural products and textiles.
They know that the EU would never let their hugely pampered
farmers suffer without good cause--the WTO is therefore
their best best: If they're lucky, they can trade something
unimportant to them (removal of restrictions on foreign
ownership of telecoms, let's say) for something vastly
beneficial--lowered tarrifs on those goods they export. It's
not easy, even with the WTO--witness the current breakdowns
(which have little to do with protests--rather, the
developing countries are sore that the 1st world hasn't done
what it promised last round yet). That's the choice a lot of
countries are having to make--stay out in the cold, with no
chance of ever having enough clout to get any important
barriers lowered...or enter, and have a much better
chance.
Finally, the WTO is there to enforce agreements, once
struck (but don't forget it was YOUR politicians that first
have to agree). Once the US has agreed not to ban tuna
imports, it can't then turn around and ban them, however
popular or worthy the cause now is. The fault is that of
shortsighted politicians, not the WTO.
As an example, China has been working very hard to get
into the WTO--despite the fact that it entails a massive
shake up of their entire economy, and a real chance of
political instability. Why are they so keen? Easy--it's the
best, maybe even the only way, they can manage to remove the
massive barriers that have been set in front of them--and
China needs them removed very badly. China has a massivly
growing population--either the economy at least matches it,
or a nuclear power with the worlds largest standing army,
several territorial disputes with other nuclear powers, and
several rebellious provinces (one of which is ALSO nuclear
armed, probably)...goes BOOM! No, I think we need to keep
those peasents in poverty myself--fatter subsidies for the
steel workers! What's that you say? Let them eat cake? I
couldn't agree more!
Yeah right... You'll notice that the protestors wearn't
Chinese. For that matter, the current head of the WTO is
from NZ, population 3.5 million, heavily dependent on
agricultural products, mostly wool, cheese, butter, and so
forth. Not a particularly important country--which is why NZ
is such a strong proponent of free trade. We don't ask for
an advantage, we just want a fair go...which is why all my
friends are as puzzled as I am about the protesters in
Seattle. Fair trade? That's what the WTO is
DOING.
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- Re:Democracy
by LL (Score:1) Monday
January 08, @08:17AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by Cody Hatch (Score:2) Monday January 08, @10:47AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by LL (Score:1) Monday
January 08, @05:34PM EST
- Re:Democracy
by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Monday January 08, @08:25AM EST
Re:Democracy
(Score:4, Insightful) by sql*kitten on Monday January
08, @09:50AM EST (#83) (User
#1359 Info) http://www.kitten.org.uk/
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Which is why the agreements
struck are generally good for megacorps and bad for
people.
Those would be the same organizations who employ
millions of people, fund the machinery of state through
corporate/employment/windfall taxes, and that your
pension fund is invested in?
Things are not as black and white as the "anti
capitalist" movement would have you believe. What do you
suppose the world was like prior to globalization? The
garden of Eden?!
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- Re:Democracy
by teatime (Score:1) Monday January 08, @09:55AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by sql*kitten (Score:3) Monday January 08, @10:51AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by teatime (Score:1) Monday January 08, @11:38AM EST
- Re:Democracy
by flimflam (Score:1) Monday January 08, @11:40AM EST
- 1
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- Re:Democracy
by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Monday January 08, @03:02PM EST
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- Re:Democracy
by linzeal (Score:1) Monday
January 08, @11:12AM EST
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shoulda known better
(Score:3, Informative) by crayz on Monday January 08, @04:21AM
EST (#22) (User
#1056 Info) |
If you really read the page, a lot of it is
satirical and someone should've realized something was up. e.g.:
"These electorates, always reluctant to adopt the
rational thinking of the free trade extremists (who have, after all,
proved their worth by being the world's wealthiest people, or hired
by same), are the only real obstacle to the kind of progress and
development that is considered most likely to benefit all."
"Does free trade mean a high growth rate?
There is
no evidence at all that it does. There is evidence it does not..."
"Does free trade mean a better standard of living?
During the last thirty years, the U.S. market has been
"opened" and deregulated more, and more quickly, than that of any
other developed country. But the average hours worked per year in
the U.S. increased greatly between 1980 and 1997, while in every
other developed country but one, they declined. Compared with 1973,
Americans must now work six weeks more per year to achieve the same
standard of living--and not surprisingly, Americans are increasingly
dissatisfied with their lives...."
"The WTO's purpose is to
broaden and enforce global free trade. Global free trade already
gives multinational corporations vast powers to enforce their will
against democratic governments. Expanding these corporate powers--as
the WTO intends to do in Seattle and beyond--will further cripple
governments and make them even less able to protect their citizens
from the ravages of those entities whose only aim is to grow richer
and richer and richer."
etc.
BTW, if you haven't
already, read the story at the NYT, it's really hilarious.
Ain't
Nobody's Business if You Do: read it
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problem not unique to
internet (Score:2, Interesting) by mkcmkc on Monday
January 08, @04:25AM EST (#24) (User
#197982 Info) http://home.kc.rr.com/mikecoleman/
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Around 1990, as I recall, a Los Angeles TV
station called the embassy of a Latin American country (I forget) to
ask for an interview with the ambassador. Unluckily for them, they
actually reached the phone number of a local actor, who
enterprisingly showed up for the interview in a suit, mustache, and
thick glasses. He did it straight, with a nice accent, and then
revealed the stunt a few days later.
Congrats to the WTO on having a sense of humor. Is there anyone
that doesn't love this stuff?
P.S. "bunny
burgers" "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV." |
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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
(Score:3, Funny) by don.g
(donald@gordon.co.nz.remove.everthing.after.and.inc)
on Monday January 08, @04:37AM EST (#29) (User
#6394 Info) http://my.dis.org.nz/
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That was excellent. Really. I'm surprised they
managed to carry it that far, but in terms of practical jokes,
sending a bogus WTO representitve to a conference UNDETECTED who
raises a few eyebrows (unsurprisingly) but still gets away with it
has to rank up there with the best.
-- content->headlines(); |
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Mixed feelings...
(Score:5, Insightful) by Cody
Hatch (cody@chaos.net.nz) on Monday
January 08, @04:40AM EST (#30) (User
#136430 Info) http://chaos.net.nz/
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I've got mixed feelings, to tell the truth. On
the one hand, I deeply dislike organizations that try and bully all
and sundry (remember eToys?) about domain names. And as an added
bonus, the message of their victims (if any) is usually cool. Nobody
LIKES to see someone making jokes about corporate stupidity get shut
down by the corporation in question--you lose access to the jokes.
In this case, it seems the WTO is being cool about this
website--which they can be congratulated on. This is, after all, the
way it's supposed to work. On the other hand that website is getting
close to crossing the very fine line between satire (one of the
highest forms of humour) and libel, which is just lying about
people.
I looked through the site, and these people aren't
saying anything informed or intelligent...or even funny. There are
legitament criticizism of many of the things the WTO has done...but
these people don't seem to know what they are. There are funny jokes
that could be made...but these people aren't making them. The WTO
has done stupid things...but these people don't know what they are.
There are flaws in some bits of the economic reasoning you could
drive a truck through...but these people have no clue. The entire
point of the site seems to be to confuse and mislead--NOT to
entertain or convince.
As it happens, I agree with much (not
all) of WTO policy. But I ALSO agree with the right for people to
disagree. These people may or may not have the right message--that
doesn't matter. But they aren't using the right method. I have a
right to tell you what I think of Bush--I don't have the right to
tell you I *AM* Bush.
How come it's always the cool sites
that get slapped down?
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208.48.26.217
www.nytimes.com (Score:5, Informative) by cyberdonny on
Monday January 08, @04:43AM EST (#31) (User
#46462 Info) |
> Yes, it's the New York times, so
no-login URLs will doubtless soon appear.
Actually, the URL given
(http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/weekinreview/07 WORD.html) is
already a no-login URL, if your /etc/hosts or DNS
nameserver is set up "correctly". Just be sure you have the
following line somewhere in your
/etc/hosts: 208.48.26.217
www.nytimes.com
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At least they weren't throwing
bricks... (Score:3, Interesting) by sanemind (spamme@rhodes.mine.nu) on Monday January 08,
@05:07AM EST (#39) (User
#155251 Info) |
...molotov cocktails, or destroying the
obligatory local McDonalds resteraunt franchiser's property. This
was at least only intellectual violence and vandalism, somewhat of a
step up compared to the average vitriolic thuggishness embraced by
the modern anti-capitalists, anarchists, and the like.
Still, the later continuation of the prank with the, ahem,
joke about the 'pieing' of the man turning out to have been a method
for the delivery of botulism toxin... Biological warfare; of course,
they are only joking, right? Still, as real-world pies in the face
have become a popular mechanism for delivery of some subversive
shaming dissent [or, to be more honest, of symbolic violence. Of
demonstrating to someone that you can get to them physically, and
that your ilk might not always be only packing a meringue to assult
them with].
--- man sig
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WTO doesn't have much of a sense
of humor... (Score:1) by randomuser on Monday January 08,
@05:10AM EST (#41) (User
#302557 Info) |
Since everyone seems to think the WTO has such a
great sense of humor about this, check out their earlier statement
on related matters.
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Wow. (Score:1) by pb (pdbaylie@eos.ncsu.edu) on Monday January 08,
@05:14AM EST (#42) (User
#1020 Info) http://www4.ncsu.edu/~pdbaylie
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Troll stories at troll times; what will they
think of next?
Man, I'm only reading slashdot at night if I
can help it now; the WTO will never restrict my pancakes, right,
ninjas??? --- pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely
moderate. 1020 Signal is better than noise. |
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Practical Jokes...
(Score:1) by F1D094 on Monday January 08, @05:50AM EST (#44) (User
#302562 Info) |
Definitely in the running for the best practical
joke of the year. It just nudges out my previous favorite, the Monolith
in Seattle.....Judging from the number of /. readers, this stunt
might actually cause more registered voters to mull over what it is
the WTO is actually up to. Moreso than the "protestors in Nike
tennis shoes." ever did. Advice is like cooking. You should try
it before feeding it to others. |
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Gatt people are fair
(Score:2) by mirko
(mirko@myfamilyname.org) on Monday
January 08, @05:57AM EST (#45) (User
#198274 Info) http://www.vidovic.org/mirko
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You might dislike Gatt people's economic/social
positions but others groups would have prosecuted the jokers for
much less. At least they were fair enough to take it as what it
was : a joke. -- Have you heard the Free Software
Song Remix ? |
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WTO can't get the domain name
back... (Score:2) by cperciva (cperciva@sfu.ca) on Monday January 08, @06:03AM
EST (#46) (User
#102828 Info) |
... at least not if the ICANN UDRP is applied.
One of the requirements for tranfer of a domain name is that it is
being used "in bad faith". No problem there, they are deliberately
misleading people. Right?
Wrong.
The four criteria
which can construe "bad faith" are:
(i) circumstances indicating that you have
registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the
purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain
name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the
trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant,
for valuable consideration in excess of your documented
out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name; or
(ii) you have registered the domain name in order to
prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting
the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have
engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or
(iii) you have
registered the domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting
the business of a competitor; or
(iv) by using the domain
name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial
gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location,
by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark
as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your
web site or location or of a product or service on your web site
or location.
For the first one, they have shown
no sign of wanting to sell the domain name, so that doesn't apply.
For the second, AFAIK they haven't "engaged in a pattern of such
conduct", so that doesn't apply.
For the third, the WTO
isn't a competitor of theirs, so that doesn't apply. And the
last doesn't apply because they aren't trying to attrack users
for commercial gain.
So even though the domain was
obviously registered in bad faith, none of the "bad faith"
requirements are met, and the domain shouldn't be transferred
according to the UDRP.
Of course, that hasn't stopped WIPO
in the past...
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Misleading domain name?
(Score:2, Interesting) by Garry Anderson on Monday January 08,
@06:17AM EST (#48) (User
#194949 Info) http://www.skilful.com/
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I believe that WIPO should change its name to
something more descriptive and fitting. For those that missed
this:
WIPO PRESS RELEASE - September 11, 2000
The
World Intellectual Property Organisation, to improve commercial
profitability, are to have a name and Internet site change. Formally
WIPO, is now to be known as SWIPO. We can be found at our new site
SWIPO.ORG.
We have the full
backing of United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO.GOV) and Internet Corporation
for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN.ORG).
We are the first
and most excellent of the arbitration services for ICANNs big
business friendly process - the Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy
(UDRP). Do not think just because we are part of the United Nations
(UN.ORG) that we are even-handed,
therefore may rule against you. Being financed by big business - we
know where our loyalties lie.
We are to shortly start an
advertising campaign to inform of this name change, aimed at the
corporate and celebrity world. We will guarantee to them with
absolute certainty, that they we will get any domain name they covet
- whoever already owns it. Unless owners have more money and power,
of course. We can do this because of rationalisation, ridding
ourselves of honest panellists in readiness for our Initial Public
Offering in January 2001.
Do not use any of the other
arbitration services - eResolution etc, even in the past we were the
most successful in getting the name you want. We made the rules - we
know all the tricks. We are the most powerful, growing daily, and
can take whatever you want. Tell us the name; we will do the rest.
Example: Paramount approached us a short while back, saying they
would quite like CREW.com for their camera crews to use. We thought
about it and came up with a winning excuse - Star Trek has the most
famous crews of any ship on the planet (or off). We told them to
hang on until after a smaller case for the name had gone through. It
would be silly to turn down jCREW money.
We will push aside
ALL competition, using the quote from Francis Gurry, Advertising and
Publicity Executive, "Domain Name Hijacking - Forget the Rest - We
Swipe Best".
We deny all of the libellous slurs being put by
our critics. WIPO.org.uk say we do
not look after the interests of all trademark holders. It is a
malicious lie; we follow a strict set procedure to make sure we do
so:
1. We give domain to UDRP appellant, after their cheque
clears. 2. We contact each trademark in turn, no matter how
obscure or tenuous the link. 3. We offer them arbitration to take
domain away from the new owner.
Case in point: After winning
them JethroTull.com, told Tull about JT.com, which we just usurped
for Japan Tobacco. Tull decided it was wanted; their money is as
good as anyone's. We came up a winning argument; they are 'JT' to
friends, all families and fans.
Seen a domain name you would
like to hijack? Order it now from our site at SWIPO.ORG.
"Domain Name
Hijacking - Forget the Rest - We Swipe Best"
Semblance of any
the above to reality is purely a joke, as is the true state of
affairs. All TM acknowledged. This has been written in the spirit of
'free speech' (you may have heard the expression). SWIPO is pointed
to WIPO. If you want more of the truth (you be the judge), visit my
site wipo.org.uk. You can see the
answer to trademark problems there.
Wipo.org.uk and swipo.org
have no connection with, and wishes to be totally disassociated
from, the World Intellectual Property Organization. The above is
considered and informed opinion.
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Misleading domain names
(Score:1) by TheMoog (matthew@argonaut.com.no-schpamm) on Monday
January 08, @07:01AM EST (#61) (User
#8407 Info) http://www.monkeypilot.com/
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On the subject of misleading domain names, a
friend of mine used to have 'ilm.com' ... ostensibly 'ImageLine
Multimedia'
He had a barrage of CVs/happy birthdays to lucas@ilm.com before
eventually ilm bought the domain back off of him.
--
Connection Beset By Beer |
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negativland's new gig
(Score:1) by jothenull (jothenull@NO.SPAM.home.com) on Monday January 08,
@07:27AM EST (#70) (User
#141276 Info) http://www.mp3.com/robotman
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check out http://www.gatt.org/fundintel.html
C'mon... when you see the words "Intellectual Property Fund"
and Negativland together, how can you take it seriously?
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Spoofs & Legality
(Score:2, Interesting) by deran9ed (deran9ed@hushmail.com) on Monday January 08,
@07:40AM EST (#71) (User
#300694 Info) http://www.antioffline.com/
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I think I have done the most spoofs for one site
to date with everything ranging from Microsoft, FreeBSD, SourceForge,
ABCNews, Redhat, Firestone, Napster, Slashdot, and a
few more, I think people should exercise a bit of common sense
before following the information contained on spoofed
pages.
Now anyone can surely see any of the pages are made in
good or bad taste depending on judgement, and many can say "They
should have known better", should anyone have been technologically
challenged to take anything serious, but people have to take into
consideration that not everyone is a tech savvy /.'er and will often
fall for these jokes and misguided info filled pages (Lord knows
agencies like the FBI play off some judges who are non technically
adept in an effort to get warrant issued.) I've had people who
thought these were hacks I had done, I had those complain to me
about their (spoofed sites) judgement to use offensive things, so
its clear that some people are dolts.
Should someone have
intent to make money, misguide (for financial gain), or other ill
motive outside of just typical fun poking of a site using a spoof
then there should be some form restitution they should have the pay
and the content be removed.
Coming soon, NSA Spoof
Home sweet home
access-list 102 deny tcp any any established |
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They are not the good guys
(Score:2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 08,
@09:31AM EST (#79)
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Well.. Everybody seems heartily conserted that
the WTO is only a buch of good guys because they didn't open their
can of lawyers against all jokers in their path.. (what apparently
is mere good conduct these days or so it seems)
Let me be the first to post it then:the WTO is not sueing
these people because they could not possibly face any more bad
publicity
The WTO is simply a cartel beyond the biggest of cartels that you
can think of; they unite the biggest corporations (countries) to
come to terms about resources and prices. Simple as that. Nothing
free market about it. (As is most of capitalism is most western
countries; they all start resembling communism in an eerie way by
now). Be afraid.
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internic.com
(Score:1) by hymie3 on Monday January 08, @09:35AM EST (#80) (User
#187934 Info) |
One of my friends, matt, was the guy who
originally registered internic.com. (not the aussie guy; matt sold
the domain to the aussie guy) Matt had up a fake internic web page.
It was very obviously a fake page; lots of questions like "what is
your quest?" and "spoon?"
People would send him mail all of the time saying stuff
like "I have to get my domain registered or I will lose my job!!!"
The best part of it all was that internic.net employees started
referring trouble cases to matt at internic.com (obviously knowing
that was not the correct site).
If you can scrounge up some old usenet archives, alt.pud had a
lot of misplaced mail forwarded there.
hymie Stale oreos *do* taste good! |
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DJ Spooky, robots, and the
Frontier Fund (Score:2, Informative) by Jammer@CMH
(Jamie@NetEnabled SpamSpamSpammitySpam
.com) on Monday January 08, @11:08AM EST (#96) (User
#117977 Info) http://www.netenabled.com/
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Check out their page for The Frontier Fund,
managed by DJ Spooky, the
Subliminal Kid.
From the description of one of the holdings (VRWR):
"Develop a 'virtual worker' system that allows
populations normally engaged in migrant labor to work over the web
instead. For example, develop a telepresent robot that picks
oranges or strawberries while being controlled through the
internet. Then, unionize both the robots and the telepresent
workers." Not hijacking. Clever prank.
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Differences in
misleadings (Score:1) by TWX_the_Linux_Zealot
(oliver.clozoff@usa.net) on Monday
January 08, @11:14AM EST (#101) (User
#227666 Info) |
It's one thing if someone puts up a banner ad on
a site that is a misspelling of a company's site, it's quite another
to build a page that has "World Trade Organization" at the top of
the page and "World Trade Organization / GATT" in the header for the
title. This could be interpreted as a group claiming false identity.
If I were to somehow get a domain name that was the name of a
company or organization and I put information on a site claiming to
be that organization, I'd probably be convicted of fraud
. I think that they can use the domain name IF the are willing
to upfront claim who they are versus intentionally trying to
convince people that this is the official site of the WTO. I don't
know about anyone else, but if someone wants me to take their side
in a cause they'd better be damn honest about everything upfront,
else they will lose my support, and I will also try to convince
others that they are a con. This is a perfect
example.
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could
have lost 3hr and 17min from that." - Bruce Campbell |
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The real fun is here
(Score:2) by crisco
(chris@cothrun.com) on Monday January 08,
@11:35AM EST (#102) (User
#4669 Info) http://cothrun.com/
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http://www.theyesmen.org/wto/ Where they
successfully sent an individual as someone impersonating a speaker
from the WTO, staged a pie in the face incident and when his
horrible speech didn't raise enough of a reaction from the audience
they staged his death.
Chris Cothrun |
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Anyone noticed the Y2K+1 bug on
NYTIMES page? (Score:1) by dalibor on Monday January 08,
@01:54PM EST (#109) (User
#241079 Info) |
Check the right side of the article:
Headlines updated 1/8/101 7:48 P.M.
:-)
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clever (Score:2) by grappler (thegrappler@DIE_SPAMMERS.usa.net) on Monday
January 08, @02:53PM EST (#111) (User
#14976 Info) http://www.mines.edu/Stu_life/organ/ufo/
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No matter what your politics are, ya gotta admit
that's a pretty cool Hack. They carried it pretty far. I wonder what
the guy was thinking when he gave the speech? That must have been
fun :-)
------- I hate .sigs |
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Why are these people againts free
trade? (Score:1) by rent on Monday January 08, @09:15PM
EST (#127) (User
#66355 Info) http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~amalinow
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Free trade increases wealth. Here is a
simplified example of how it works:
Alice has produced 100
cups, which to her are worth only $1 each. Total wealth of Alice
= $100
Meanwhile, Bob has produced 100 plates, which to him
are worth only $1 each. Total wealth of Bob = $100
Alice
has lots of cups, but no plates. She will pay $4 for a plate from
Bob, because plates are not available where she lives. Bob has
lots of plates, but no cups. He will pay $4 for a cup from Alice,
because cups not available where he lives.
Alice and Bob
meet, and agree to trade. Alice gives 10 of her cups to Bob, and Bob
gives 10 of his plates to Alice.
Alice now has 90 cups at $1
each and 10 plates at $4 each. Total wealth of Alice has
increased to $130 (because $90 worth of cups + $40 worth of
plates = $130)
Bob now has 90 plates at $1 each and 10 cups
at $4 each. Total wealth of Bob has increased to $130
(because $90 worth of plates + $40 worth of cups = $130)
Both Alice and Bob had their wealth increased. That's
why Free Trade is so important.
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SFPCC (Score:5,
Funny) by SFPCC (sfpcc@hotmail.com) on Monday January 08, @04:03AM
EST (#9) (User
#302433 Info) |
Congratulations! You got the First
Post.
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Don't click the link!
(Score:1, Offtopic) by pen (slashdot@digdug.cx) on Monday January 08,
@04:43AM EST (#32) (User
#7191 Info) http://digdug.cx/
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Warning: Really nasty javascript will pop up new
windows. (Still didn't make me close the browser though! Nana!)
-- Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not
thus handicapped. -- Elbert Hubbard |
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