TOPICS discussed include: justive v retaliation, fasting and inward change, inevitability of world peace, peace = no imperialis, god, art and crisis and money, food not bombs, action v despair, war as the easy way out, civil liberties and terrorism, capitalism, freedom and captialism, redistribution of power, a lawyer's reaction, closing thoughts and thanks

Pauly: music n film
katy -> Pauly: and what style of music do you work with?
Pauly: rock jazz n soul
(private message deleted)
Pauly: what to u express?
pcrav: and you katy, where are you from?
danielo: bed...yur woman sleep....
danielo: like a tree
Pauly: marvin gaye, neil simon, stevie wonder robert deniro
(private message deleted)
Pauly: to start
Pauly: i love film n am working on an abstract music video now
pcrav: it was nice to be here........enjoy your peace bed......
katy: you're leaving, pcrav?
Pauly: not everone understands the depth of love n spreading it
positively
pcrav: yes....you are all very busy talking......
hoyasaxa: good evening peoples.
pcrav: and i have to go and bake some focaccia......
hoyasaxa: wow, who makes focaccia? amazing.
pcrav: me........i am a chef
katy: bad subject!.... these guys are fasting!
pcrav: and i manage a cafe.....
pcrav: slow food...it is tastier and more healthy......
pcrav: fast food is plastic..........and unreal......
Bed-In New Zealand: hoysaxa, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
pcrav: why you look sad katy?
jacky: (private) how old are yyou?
katy: oh, i'm fine... don't mean to look sad..
(private message deleted)
hoyasaxa: fasting? how long?
pcrav: but you do look sad...........or concerning......
(private message deleted)
hoyasaxa: people always say i look mad when i'm not. maybe katy just
has the "sad" look :)
katy: i guess i do sometimes....
pcrav: ok....maybe you are right......
(private messages deleted)
Pauly: she has a deep n focused look
(private message deleted)
katy: well, guys 3 more hours and running!
Bed-In New Zealand: thanks
pcrav: yes.....but she is so young that is a shame to be so serious.....she has time to be serious....
Pauly: bye katy
hoyasaxa: hey bed-in. thanks, i stopped in here because the name was intriguing.
katy: bye Pauly!
Bed-In New Zealand: not what you expected?
hoyasaxa: well, i'm from the u.s., so perhaps my views might seem a
little.. hmm...off?
Bed-In New Zealand: bye
hoyasaxa: pleasantly, no.
katy: why is that?
katy: what are your views?
pcrav: bye every one......see you next time......
hoyasaxa: well, katy, it's unfortunate how being in the supposed focal point
of a "situation" can sometimes make people stray from their usual outlook.
katy: that is true... how has it changed?
Bed-In New Zealand: how so?
(private message deleted)
hoyasaxa: well, normally, you want to turn the other cheek. then, they kill your friends. then you want revenge. it's hard. because you know that justice, i.e. retribution, will never be served and that the people that should be brought to justice are not the one
(private message deleted)
hoyasaxa: when they kill the people you love, it changes everything.
hoyasaxa: i suppose i should mention, i live in washington, d.c.
Bed-In New Zealand: so you knew people who were killed?
(private message deleted)
katy: that seems to be the process that a lot of peace and civil right activists go through as well... that idea of separating the personal from an ideal
hoyasaxa: professors, friends, yes.
hoyasaxa: changes everything when you cannot de-personify it. you look at a situation so differently when it is not "a shame what they did to those people" but instead when it is "how they killed my law professor"
hoyasaxa: and yet, i study law. i understand the struggle to operate justly, humanely, and with an eye towards equality and distributive problem solving. yet, these things do nothing to cure immediate pain. the same issue we have right now in america is the same
hoyasaxa: did my text get cut off?
katy: yeah that happens once you get to the third line
hoyasaxa: well, i was just saying that the americans and the afghani citizens have the same issue right now. we hurt. and we want nothing more than an immediate cure to our pain. and we realize that what we seek
may just cause us more pain in the long run, but wh
hoyasaxa: damn.
hoyasaxa: anyway, i am rambling. so.
hoyasaxa: your fasting, it is a beautiful thing. because while i am sure you recognize your inability to change your surroundings, you know you can change within. and if a critical mass of people mobilize *themselves,* then you have effected outward change.
katy: that's a good point!
Bed-In New Zealand: hello hoyasaxa, hello katy, it's amy here again!
katy: complete stand still for the moment
Bed-In New Zealand: hello beb, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: well, that did the trick. andy and i are starting to becom delirious here, so you two continue on.
katy: it appears as though hoyasaxa is not here? am right?
katy: are you guys doing alright? gonna eat and then sleep?
katy: <you don't have to keep typing, if you're too pooped>
Bed-In New Zealand: i was checking out your earlier conversation.
katy: oh, from way before... or recently before... not making much sense....sorry
Bed-In New Zealand: well, hoyasaxa is still listed, but his videocam is empty?
Bed-In New Zealand: no, we are okay. i was feeling a little woozy before but the nap was good.
Bed-In New Zealand: you know we will continue to the bitter end! less than 2.5 hours to go.
katy: usually, when i go to bed and i'm starved, i seem to have lost a lot of that hunger when i wake up
Bed-In New Zealand: your text this round, some good points.
katy: (by 5 min)
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, sometimes that works. sometimes not.
katy: i will admit, your case is extreme compared to my normal go hungry nights....
Bed-In New Zealand: but we are having some lemon tea now with honey to mellow out our systems and give us the last bit of energy for the final push.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello j, welcome to the bed-in for peace..
Bed-In New Zealand: it's late there now, no?
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: right, how do you access flashpoints? radio?
katy -> Bed-In New Zealand: i sent a link somewhere in there.... i believe that it was flashpoints.net?
Bed-In New Zealand: what's your plan for sunday? you must be exhausted too, this bed-in is grueling for all.
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, we'll check it out.
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: don't feel obligated to stay, katy, although you are more than welcome to.
Bed-In New Zealand: where is your class again?
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: well that matters right there.
Bed-In New Zealand: everybody needs to make sense out of the situation in their own way, and people who are not flag wavers have a more difficult time
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello mimosa, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello rabbit, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello david, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Bed-In New Zealand: hello zapatamartel, welcome to the bed-in for
Peace…
(private messages deleted)
david: hi katy
david: hi u doing
(private messages deleted)
zapatamartel: hi veryone.. . kids
(private messages deleted)
katy: would anyone like to share their opinions about the current world
crisis?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello david and zapata.
kay: hello amy and andy;
Bed-In New Zealand: welcome kay! right on.
kay: calling from King St. Artworks. Sam, Christine, Neville, Kate, myself, and Linda greet you in your feeble spirit -only state.
(private message deleted)
hhfuyjsd: hg
katy: would anyone like to add their opinion?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello everyone, sorry my server crashed. welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: and please, get me up to speed on the discussion.
TdiddyJ: hello world
Bed-In New Zealand: so, what do people think about the US and afghanistan. basically, how can we achieve peace?
TdiddyJ: what's up katy?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello King St. Artworks.
katy: (private) i've got the text, but where do i begin the text?
Bed-In New Zealand: we wish you peace in this difficult time.
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: finally, gabriel, como estas?
Bed-In New Zealand: zapatamartel?
Bed-In New Zealand: can you hear us hermano?
zapatamartel: I am great but the jameson does not let me operate this... i am trying to hear ya
zapatamartel: np
kay: hi there guys. I have always found fasting to be slow. Your souls must be soaring. World peace is inevitable I believe and it's reality a process that humanity must bring about in stages.
zapatamartel: mick jagger and the beatles are on tv for ny
Bed-In New Zealand: really?
(private messages deleted)
zapatamartel: a big benefit
Bed-In New Zealand: what is your plan for this evening our peace loving friend?
Bed-In New Zealand: we are talking with our friend zapatamartel in san francisco.
zapatamartel: destino 111 minna
Bed-In New Zealand: where are you from tdiddyj? and lazybum?
kay: Stage one= unity of consciousness
(private message deleted)
zapatamartel: peace = no imperialism
zapatamartel: no greed
Bed-In New Zealand: unity of consciousness, this discussion has been about raising consciousness, there is unity but there is also dissent which makes for a healthy society, dissent without the use of firearms.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello richie, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: well said zapatam
Bed-In New Zealand: hello lazar, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
kay: stage 2 equality of men and women
Bed-In New Zealand: kay, how is the artists and writers respond to crises meeting going?
Bed-In New Zealand: well, andy and i are both in this bed that we have made together. we hope to continue to work together to combat sexism, violence, stereotypes and break down cultural boundaries and the reigning power structures wherever we can.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello greeneyes, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
kay: stage 3 unity of religion, there is only one god
Bed-In New Zealand: and hello to you to wyatt, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
(private message deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: god?
kay: hi some little corrections. these cronies have been taking my name in vain. stage 3 unity of religion (and stage 2 and 1) are the opinions of SAM. Now read on. SAM speaking
Bed-In New Zealand: okay kay!
katy: he's gotta use the bathroom at some point!
Bed-In New Zealand: very strict zapata m!
kay: yes God the creator of all things
(private messages deleted)
kay: Linda speaking the acceptance of god as a personal statementbrings peace
kay: we're not god freaks, but sam is!!
Bed-In New Zealand: well, we have talked alot about god here, mostly about finding the "god" within i.e. personal power and effecting change in yourself to effect change on a larger level. we have also talked about people's need to believe in something, especially in times
Bed-In New Zealand: hello chileno 22, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
kay: where are you?
Bed-In New Zealand: we are in bed, the amy and andy bedroom at new pacific studio, a place for dialogue about the new pacific with artists and writers and environmentalists!
katy: hello everyone, have you any opinions or information to share?
(private messages deleted)
kay: estoy Kate na habla Espanol
wyatt: my wife and I support your bed-in-for-peace from California. We agree. As Americans, we do not agree with the bombing in Afganistan. We are holding peace in are hearts in California.
katy: i am from s. florida, louis, and where are you from.... what is the political climate in your area?
kay: I am from Wellington NZ, visiting Mount Bruce
louis: Hello Katy
louis: Where are u from katy
louis: I am from Brunei, in South East Asia
louis: quite hot hear all round
Bed-In New Zealand: thank you wyatt. we are all working for peace here too.
(private messages deleted)
louis: rainy season at the moment
kay: Kate, it is spring in NZ
louis: I've been to Florida once during that time I went to the Disneyland in1995
(private messages deleted)
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted nude dancing ***
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted MAriAnO ***
kay: Neville: We are waiting for the water to boil and solving the problems of the world
Bed-In New Zealand: hello gina, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: louis?
wyatt: We were given this chat site from our friend Lasse in Sweden. He was a close friend of our brother who just passed away. He would appreciate this cause. He traveled in Afghanistan years ago and loved the country and their people. We would like to d
Bed-In New Zealand: hello unknown, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
katy: that's so nice to hear, wyatt!
gina: I'm not too politically involved, just have to wait and see
kay: Neville: I am an artist and wondering if any other artists out there are finding the present crisis is influencing their work. If so how.
Bed-In New Zealand: why so private unknown?
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello neville, as you can see, andy and i are both artists and here we are, this is how we are currently responding through our work.
gina: i'll tell you how, i think people are concentrating on essentials right now instead of wasting their money on some painting
wyatt: My wife is an artist who is very distressed and saddened by this crisis
katy: not quite sure yet... i am still working out the kinks in existing ideas... i've been increasingly more "political" in my work so i imagine that this will be perhaps added incentive (incentive of which i should have had before)
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: wasting time and money on some painting?
webcam: hi katywyatt: Art is not a waste of time and money!
katy: perhaps we should ridicule the price and not the painting.....
katy: painting et al
Bed-In New Zealand: art has been known to give solace in times of crises, to feed people (sorry for the food metaphor on this day when we are fasting) looking for something to believe in, truth, beauty, etc... beyond violence and war.
wyatt: Painting is a process, who cares about selling it?
katy: and if you want to go there.... lets talk movies....
katy: unfortunately, selling is an issue with many artists... i don't particularly care for...
Bed-In New Zealand: well, that is true wyatt, but artists need to find ways to live.
Bed-In New Zealand: it is difficult to divorce the commercial from the other aspects of art making but it can be done.
wyatt: Most US movies are a waste of time.
kay: hi Kay here escaped from the pasta pots. The world has always been a bad place for artists and they have to figure out what their focus is to be. shouting, whispering, making beauty to console, or truthtelling. Brecht the 20thc. German poet has a poem wriBed-In New Zealand: especially if $$ is not the main point (as it appears to be in us movies)!
wyatt: The process come first, selling is the bonus
katy: getting down to the meat of the matter, one might pay anywhere from 5-10 bucks for a movie, but usually, movies cost millions of dollars to make..... i would much rather buy a work of art
katy: AND does anyone have any idea how much $ we've exploded over afghanistan?
katy: priorities...... and america's got it all in the wrong places...
wyatt: The US should have used the bomb money for humanitarian aid
Bed-In New Zealand: kay what is that poem? (you have to split up long texts as they get cut off!)Bed-In New Zealand: YES wyatt!
(private message deleted)
kay: poem is called 'A bad time for Lyric Poetry." The beauty of the flowering tree delights him but the vicious acts of the bad housepainter (aka Hitler) force him to abandon lyrics about nature.
Bed-In New Zealand: museum visits seem to increase during wartime as people seek out shelter, try to find a little beauty in a dismal world.
katy: i have heard that also!
Bed-In New Zealand: kay? what do you think?
dreamer: montreal here
Bed-In New Zealand: hello dreamer, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: dreamer, hello. how are things in montreal? What’s the word there on the bombing?
wyatt: The enemy is our selves.
Bed-In New Zealand: scary and true.
yopeco: on tv as we speak some firefighter from ny just told bin laden to kiss his ass. peace massage?
Bed-In New Zealand: how can we come to peace with this? or change it in some way?
yopeco: not at all
Bed-In New Zealand: that does not sound like a message of peace to me yo, people are angry and want blood.
wyatt: Bed-in--were did you get your idea for a Bed-in?
yopeco: lennonono maybe
Bed-In New Zealand: how can we get people to be less angry and more understanding? that is where the peace will come from.
wyatt: Many in the US do not want this so called war to continue...we want peace
Bed-In New Zealand: lennono yes, but we also wanted to instigate a "passive" act of resistance to try to break down global cultural barriers and have a real conversation about what is happening and how we can participate it in an authentically positive way.
wyatt: yes
Bed-In New Zealand: also, we were tired of feeling helpless and hopeless and wanted to DO something.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello christian, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
wyatt: the govenment (Bush) doesn't
Bed-In New Zealand: apparantly not, it seems the gov. is taking the easy way out and not investigating the causes of hatred and terror and only going after their superficial trappings.
katy: or maybe, get people angry...but, at the right institution... because if people don't get angry about everything, including racism, sexism, income gaps et al, we will continue to let the corporations control us
wyatt: Bush can't, but Cheney could
katy: well...
Bed-In New Zealand: right you are katy, there is a lot of lethargy out there. maybe that is one positive that can come out of this, get people thinking more and challenging what is?
Bed-In New Zealand: i have heard that there has been a lot of discussion in the US about more sophisticated topics than normal, centering on civil liberties and the like. is this true? people in the USA?dreamer: its not like we are not supposed to be in a war.
katy: that's why i say: PROTEST THE WAR AND CRITICIZE THE POLICIES AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURES THAT ARE DOING THE DAMAGE
dreamer: we never passed that much time without
Bed-In New Zealand: hello chamuco, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
dreamer: for the last 50 years its never been that easy on the history of mankind .wasn’t supposed to stay that way
Chamuco: ok
Bed-In New Zealand: why not dreamer? why are we not supposed to not have war?
Chamuco: well.. i live in Mexico, next to USA
Bed-In New Zealand: and hello to you evolution, see the above welcome please.
evolution: Sadly, war is deeply ingrained into the human psyche, from millenia of evolution.
katy: yeah some more people are talking about civil liberties because they are quickly passing laws that are quite literally restricting and censoring them.... and no one is dissenting
evolution: Thank you Bed!
Chamuco: and here are the things are with a little pressure, because, we are very close with USA in business..
Bed-In New Zealand: what are people saying in mexico chamuco?
Chamuco: the TLC was running well
Bed-In New Zealand: TLC?
Chamuco: but with this maybe are some pressure to be with usa
evolution: I'm in the U.S., and now everyone is a mindless patriot.
katy: between the us and mexico, you mean?
katy: tlc, that is
Bed-In New Zealand: and nobody can dissent because it is anti-american right?
Chamuco: Tratado de Libre Comercio
katy: ohhh...feel stupid...
evolution: Free Trade Agreement.
Bed-In New Zealand: i thought that was what america was all about. ha ha
hoyasaxa: back. what up peoples?
Chamuco: thats it thank you evolution
Bed-In New Zealand: hello hoyasaxa, welcome back.
Chamuco: dont worry katy
hoyasaxa: katy, where do you live?
evolution: I hate to say it, but I think some civil liberties must suffer to ensure a somewhat higher degree of safety. This is some nasty business.
evolution: It's a pity.
katy: no, i cannot agree with that...
hoyasaxa: some would say that safety is, or should be, the greatest civil liberty.
evolution: It's ok, we don't have to agree.
Chamuco: yeah
Chamuco: just say what you think
Bed-In New Zealand: that is definitely a valid opinion evolution, many feel similarly, but perhaps there could be more safety and continued liberty, it all depends on which ones are being tampered with.
hoyasaxa: just out of curiousity, where is everyone here from? and what do you "do"?
Bed-In New Zealand: that's right, this is a safe place for dissent where everyone can speak their mind (as long as there are no explicit sexual come-on!)
Chamuco: well.. have to go..
Chamuco: i got to work
evolution: Bed, I just don't think that my government, unconscionable as it may be, is really out to establish a totalitarian state. Thank goodness.
Bed-In New Zealand: andy and i are artists from san francisco currently living in new zealand.
Chamuco: here are the 11:20 pm
Chamuco: day 20
evolution: It's almost three in the morning where I am. lol
hoyasaxa: the greatest trick the devil ever pulled...
Chamuco: nice meeting you
Bed-In New Zealand: no, that is true, and we all know there are many way more repressive regimes than the u.s.
Chamuco: you are here.. but you don’t have to work
hoyasaxa: was forgetting that he was on a conquest.
evolution: Bed, I used to live in the illustrious Tenderloin. lol
Bed-In New Zealand: and, that our government is actually voted in!
katy: a quote from thomas jefferson (i think, if i remember it correctly): those who are willing to give up liberty for safety, do not deserve liberty.
Bed-In New Zealand: that's the scary part, but stems from gross social inequities.
evolution: I'll take extended life over anything. lol
katy: thank you zorro, i don't feel quite so....
hoyasaxa: americans have an interesting take on freedom, i find.
evolution: My DNA is screaming to live.
hoyasaxa: and safety.
Bed-In New Zealand: welcome back erizo and zorro! how are you two?
katy: yes, welcome back guys!
Bed-In New Zealand: can you explain that a bit more hoyasaxa?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello dorkster, welcome to the bed-in for peace….
evolution: Well, I guess I'll be going to start an insurrection now. Take care, friends.
hoyasaxa: i'm getting the feeling that i should not have asked the where u from/what u do question. that, or people are only answering the comments spurned from a line of intellectual thought.
evolution: ¡Viva la raza!
evolution: lol
Bed-In New Zealand: and to you too bataco, please see the welcome above!
bataco: hello caty
Dorkster: hi katy
Dorkster: whats your age
bataco: sabes espanol
Bed-In New Zealand: people, let's talk about the issue, or please leave, thanks!Erizo: hablemos español :)
bataco: katy hello
bataco: katy hola
Zorro: hello Katy and Amy and Andy good morning
Zorro: its morning here
Zorro: Katy after u are as fresh as 12 hours earlier
Zorro: i have just heard phrase on the local news i wanna share it with u
Zorro: it say histroy should remember this war as war for justice not for revenge
Zorro: Viva peace
Zorro: how are the bed people doing any news about them
hoyasaxa: bed-in. at the risk of being the antagonist, define the issue.
Bed-In New Zealand: hi barb, welcome back, 40 more minutos!
bataco: wat du you from
bataco: katyZorro: brave Andy and Amy
Zorro: we all are with u
barborama: hola! i know... in the "home stretch" (in more ways than one..)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello zorro, andy and i are fine, 40 more minutes to our bed-in and are looking forward to our toast and stretching our legs. we have been meditating and discussing peace and fasting for almost 48 hours in an effort to find some understanding in the current situation and connect with people from all over the build to build understanding and diffuse anger.
bataco: hello
bataco: wat you from
hoyasaxa: :) nobody ever answers that question.
bataco: katy
Bed-In New Zealand: the issue is really trying to bring people (s) closer together instead of further apart.
bataco: you are beautiful
Zorro: well plz don't forget on your toast , may i suggest that plz designate this toast to the peace of the world and all of us
Bed-In New Zealand: and for me to try to find my own peace with the evil that runs rampant in the world.bataco: you beautiful your face
hoyasaxa: what is the greatest evil in the world to you, if i forced you to name one?
Bed-In New Zealand: no one answers which question hoyasaxa?
Zorro: and u must come with the concluding remarks , which should be shared ny Katy , a brave and determined girl
hoyasaxa: "define the issue"
bataco: katy
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, good thought zorro, it will be the toast of peace and we will share it with all of you our new friends.
bataco: espike
Dorkster: its such a personal pain at times
Zorro: and this companionship should be the beginning of new friendship and commitment
Bed-In New Zealand: andy says it is capitalism.
Zorro: brb
Bed-In New Zealand: brb?
hoyasaxa: interesting. why capitalism?
katy: wow, thanks....guys
bataco: katy
bataco: i need you espeaker
Bed-In New Zealand: maybe greed is more appropriate and the inequal distribution of power and wealth, not capitalism per se but what it has come to be.
Dorkster: hey guy
(private messages deleted)
katy: actually, andy might have it... because capitalism does seems to promote and support all of the other evil isms out there.!
hoyasaxa: let's talk about what the good "isms" are. can you give me a few?
Dorkster: but it supports a lot of freedom
Bed-In New Zealand: andy says anarchism
Sun Tzu _m_: ya. what is freedom again?
hoyasaxa: this is very cool. it's nice to talk to people who are not in a class i'm teaching or something about these issues.
Sun Tzu _m_: the power to make money?...
(private message deleted)
hoyasaxa: sun, that's actually a very good point. i probably define freedom a lot different that some of the people in this room. and vice versa.
bataco: katy
bataco: hello
bataco: my from mexico
(private messages deleted)
Dorkster: anyone has the right to make money
Sun Tzu _m_: true. but at what point does it become an ethical issue? When you make it at the demise of a fellow human?
bataco: katy good bye
hoyasaxa: let me ask you the conversation killer, then. how should we distribute power and wealth equally?
Sun Tzu _m_: kill everyone.
Sun Tzu _m_: j/k
hoyasaxa: basically, sun. :)
hhfuyjsd: haty
hhfuyjsd: halo
Dorkster: we already do in the US it’s all about perception
Sun Tzu _m_: it's the only way. Humans are a fallen race. We naturally want more that we are given.
Bed-In New Zealand: that is a tough question but it has to start with the individual with people realizing that it is the most beneficial way, the only way for the planet to survive.
hoyasaxa: and thus we come to the complexity issue.
Sun Tzu _m_: We will take what we can, even us that really try to be 'good'
Dorkster: your right sun tzu that the prblem
Bed-In New Zealand: maybe a shift in defining terms good and evil would be helpful?
hoyasaxa: what if i decide i do not want power and wealth and others do. if, being assigned an equal ration by whoever assigns these things (and, if there is somebody assigning power and wealth, aren't they by nature more powerful than I?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello jeff, welcome to the bed-in for peace….
Sun Tzu _m_: ok. if you we re-define good and evil then we need to ask a second set of questions....
hoyasaxa: if i decide to give this power and wealth away, does that mean that wealth and power has been equally distributed because i have been given the *option* of being on equal ground?
Sun Tzu _m_: 1) Why are we re-defining them?
hoyasaxa: somebody read nietschze.
Sun Tzu _m_: 2) Why is it us? and don't we carry our own bias
(private messages deleted)
hoyasaxa: i'm gonna smoke too.
Bed-In New Zealand: the key is for wealth and power not to be given away, that creates a power dichotomy. people need to either take power or ...
Sun Tzu _m_: 3) Perhaps it is just a lack of discipline.. maybe we don't need more definitions.hoyasaxa: if you want to help your country, smoke cigarettes.
Sun Tzu _m_: (i agree dorkster .. smoking is ugly -but this aint part of the conversationJeff: no smoking iii
hoyasaxa: take power.. uh huh. think about what you've just said before i say anything else. you may come up with the response yourself.
hoyasaxa: i'm gonna take a one minute hiatus while we meditate on that.
Bed-In New Zealand: use power distribute power, etc...
Sun Tzu _m_: "All pigs are equal. However some are more equal than others"
Bed-In New Zealand: in a peaceful way of course.
hoyasaxa: haha, sun, you're a reader aren't you?
Sun Tzu _m_: of course.
Jeff: what time is it in new zealand ??
Zorro: power and wealth cannot be distributed equally u can do it rationally but not equally
Bed-In New Zealand: it is 7:35 in NZ T minus 25 minutes
Bed-In New Zealand: well, that's a start zorro.
(private messages deleted)
Zorro: yes that good
Sun Tzu _m_: right.
dreamer: dont leave
hoyasaxa: well, bed, do you have my response to your statement?
Zorro: Amy
Bed-In New Zealand: which one hoya?
dreamer: tks
dreamer: so lets talk about you
Zorro: plz remember there is a difference between distribution and sharing , we must share not distribute
hoyasaxa: why i thought it humorous that you would say an answer to the dilemma is to take power?
Bed-In New Zealand: right zorro, good point. it is a change of consciousness that is the key.
hoyasaxa: someone has to distribute.
Sun Tzu _m_: Power is not a sin. remember that.
hoyasaxa: or otherwise you take.
Sun Tzu _m_: Money is not a sin.
hoyasaxa: so, you must realize what the fallacy is in your statement about "taking"
Sun Tzu _m_: Abuse and greed for both ultimately will cause our demise.
Dorkster: just enjoy it when you have it
Dorkster: power is leadership in many ways and we need it
Sun Tzu _m_: (and for others)
Sun Tzu _m_: ... damn... must go.
Bed-In New Zealand: well, in a peaceful way of course, people can take back their power from the system that is oppressing them without violence, it is about the individual taking power for themselves in order to use it for the good of all.
hoyasaxa: piece, my man.
Sun Tzu _m_: Catch you people later ok.
(private messages deleted)
hoyasaxa: take back power without violence. at the risk of sounding 5, how?
Bed-In New Zealand: well, find the power in yourself to enact change, i think you need to broaden your definitions abit.
(private messages deleted)
hoyasaxa: i didn't give you definitions, so we don't know that i need to broaden them. i'm sorry, bed, if you haven't mentioned by now, i'm a lawyer, so i'm going to ask you the what/when/why/how of everything. if at any time you want me to shut up...
hoyasaxa: if you = if i
Dorkster: hiya katy
its all good: hi katy
hoyasaxa: but i do think it is important to diligently think about, to analyze, and to critique the notions that we hold. b/c a lot of what we say, although we believe we are highly intellectual and "right" might seem crazy or baseless to another person.
katy: of course, always recognize the context
Dorkster: so what your saying is its all crap majority rules
Bed-In New Zealand: alright hoyasaxa if you = if i is true, let's try not to split hairs on words right now, this is about trying to find answers to difficult questions and we seem to be falling into the trap of being divisive when we are trying to work together.
hoyasaxa: exactly wrong dorkster :)
Dorkster: but it sounded very techical and wordy
Bed-In New Zealand: i agree with hoyasaxa, we all do need to explore what we believe and how we present it. and allow other people to hold differing views and respect them. that is what brings unity, understanding and community instead of anger, war and violence.
hoyasaxa: ahhh bed. not splitting hairs, my friend. your biggest critic is your best friend, since only through self analysis do we make progress. but i realize you are tired as well. so, let's just breathe for a moment
hoyasaxa: right on.
hoyasaxa: awww man i can't find my smokes.
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm glad you realize and see this as true hoyasaxa.
hoyasaxa: your tiredness? or ??
Bed-In New Zealand: the other bit silly!
hoyasaxa: man i feel like a confused gopher! where did i bury those treats...
katy: uh oh!
Bed-In New Zealand: so okay, i think it's time for closing thoughts here as we wind down the bed-in.Zorro: yes plz all ears to u bed freinds
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted mebli ***
hoyasaxa: man this sucks. i have no smokes. i must resort to the sticky green.
hoyasaxa: oh yes, closing thoughts. sorry
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: everyone, please compose something for the final words here and please know that andy and i have relished your participation.
hoyasaxa: hey, i'm just happy nobody was getting naked! seriously though, this was a cool little bit. glad i stumbled in here.
katy: i give you a whole-hearted thank you!
hoyasaxa: if my mother ever taught me anything, it was never to get caught in a soundbite. so...i will just say, it's been real.
(private message deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: well, after 48 hours of chat it is difficult to summarize but...what we can say is that we feel we have connected with a lot of great people out there, have learned alot, and that we are more hopeful that peace can be achieved, someday. peace to you all.
barborama: i think it's great and important that people find ways to express thoughts and opinions that we might not otherwise hear - or that aren't given airtime - in the media.
(private message deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: well said barbarama.
hoyasaxa: maybe we should just buy the media out.
hoyasaxa: "the media" hehehe
barborama: harder still to find places where people can actually have an exchange.
(private messages deleted)
Zorro: can we have an independent polls on a questionair
hoyasaxa: and what's even worse is this pipe is pulling really hard right now
Bed-In New Zealand -> katy: zorro? lagartjaking, kay? last thoughts?
(private messages deleted)
barborama: i guess by "the media" i mean the "news" that most people get their "information."
(private messages deleted)
hoyasaxa: "i don't wash properly"
hoyasaxa: wow
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: well, it is up to us to share our information with each other, explore alternatives to the status quo when desirable and to keep working towards meaningful change personally and globally.
barborama: what are your closing thoughts, amy & andy?
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm trying barb, i'm trying!
Bed-In New Zealand: bye katy sweet dreams to you too, and thanks again.
Bed-In New Zealand: okay everyone, this is really it, please be well and we look forward to talking with you all again at some point.
Bed-In New Zealand: amyberk.com and twcdc.com to continue the dialogue.....
(private messages deleted).
barborama: thanks amy & andy! have a great feast!
Zorro: yes with recommendations plz
Zorro: thats very nice of u dear friends
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: thank you all. goodbye.
(private message deleted)