TOPICS discussed include: the media, the mainstream, US terrorism, miniskirts and bacon sandwiches, Rumsfeld, Palestine, feelings in Pakistan, problems in Afghanistan, Osama's guilt, being "against" terrorism

Bed-In New Zealand: bonjour europe!
dhl: I'm not interested in knee jerking from either the right or the left
katy: absolutely
dhl: it's hard to get clean information, but if you do the work it's out there
dhl: I'm looking at as many sources as I can on the web these days
katy: i've had a dillema, though, in dealing with people who get all of their info from nbc... let's take, for example, my mom:
dhl: ok
Bed-In New Zealand: as Hegel says, true knowlege comes from knowledge mixed with doubt (sorry, i'm slogging through hegel)
Bed-In New Zealand: i think we have to doubt everything we hear
dhl: yes, be very skeptical
Bed-In New Zealand: its hard work tho
katy: i'll talk to her about my thoughts on this war... immediately she becomes offended. i speak with her more, she loosens up, i'm done with the conversation and i feel as though she will think twice before becoming so offended... blah blah
Bed-In New Zealand: a struggle for truth that might not be there
dhl: what offends her?
katy: but, i know that a week from now, she will be right back where she was from the beginning because, hell, i search everyday for new info and i still forget reasons.... i feel that it's the overwhelming influence of the status quo that's sucking my life away
katy: (gosh, i sure sound dramatic)
katy: she's offended by my lack of respect for our current gov. even though she "sure does dislike them republicans"
dhl: I thought the ststus quo was what we were all supposed to get back to (even though everything's different forever)
Bed-In New Zealand: never dramatic enough
katy: status quo meaning mainstream/corporate/capitalist influence
Bed-In New Zealand: yuk
dhl: yep, it certainly is a drag
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, because that was the last "stability" they know
Bed-In New Zealand: hello male 22, Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
dhl: though given a choice between that and extreme hardline religious fundementalists with nukes, I'd rather fight the former
katy: Bed-In New Zealand: never dramatic enough perhaps that's it, though. i don't feel comfortable unless i'm in it (dramatic) or completely out of it. where does one find a happy placement while living in this society and willingly or unwillingly taking part of that society via buying et al?
Bed-In New Zealand: who said they had nukes?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i have a similar problem
Bed-In New Zealand: ..if it is a problem
Bed-In New Zealand: all or nothing
Bed-In New Zealand: pot noodle?
katy: exactly!
dhl: they don't necessarily. But I have no doubt that if they were to get them form say pakistan, they'd have no qualms with using them. and I'm not reeady for a world with people like that
katy: ???
katy: whoops
Bed-In New Zealand: no, i think they would stop at nothing....
dhl: 13th century consciousness with 21st century military hardware doesn't work. the planet is at risk
katy: but what is the fundamental difference between religious zealots and power zealots who both have "the bomb"
katy: is it us and them?
Bed-In New Zealand: well, I didn't see 20th century consciousness do much better
Bed-In New Zealand: hiroshima, etc
dhl: the fundemental difference is that they've demonstrated that they will use it if they ever get it
Bed-In New Zealand: if you have them, its like candy in your pocket, you have to use it eventually, the potential has to be demonstrated
dhl: yes but that was 3 generations ago
Bed-In New Zealand: and there we have that senator talking about nuking afghanistan
katy: but i believe that the ways in which we terrorize is not so visible, instead it's sneaky and we starve people to death and we make them dependent on us... which seems to cripple a nation just enough so that it isn't obliterated but instead deemed impotent
Bed-In New Zealand: i agree, look at Iraq, 5000 children a month...
Bed-In New Zealand: basically, tho' I'd rather live in the USA than in a repressive muslim regime any day, but the line is finer than we might think
katy: so many parallels, yet different extremes... that old saying about the right and left meeting back to back
Bed-In New Zealand: i liked the rushdie article because he emphasised that there's no point in going back to the bacon and the mini skirts UNLESS we can spread equality (which is going backwards) across the globe
katy: (in response to the earlier) but that's comparing a poor nation and it's oppressive regime to a vastly rich nation and it's 'tactfully' oppressive regime.
dhl: yes, I liked that too
Bed-In New Zealand: i think we all should wear miniskirts and eat bacon sandwiches
Bed-In New Zealand: sorry .. fllippant
dhl: good idea!
Bed-In New Zealand: hey let's start now...
katy: no.... maybe the next web cam work
Bed-In New Zealand: damn, we're fasting
dhl: I would do that for peace
dhl: bummer!
katy: next week!
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, mini-skirts-and-bacon-sandwiches-for-peace
dhl: bacon and miniskirt week
dhl: and a movement was born...
katy: *national* bacon and mini skirt week
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm delirious with hunger
katy: so... how many of these rounds have you gone through so far? the fun-serious-fun-fun-serious rounds!
Bed-In New Zealand: about 17
dhl: lack of food makes me hallucinate
katy: and we're back
Bed-In New Zealand: to ...
katy: dirty people
Bed-In New Zealand: i could die for a ciggy
Bed-In New Zealand: hello romy, Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
katy: i should turn the cam off! i feel bad!
Bed-In New Zealand: no worries, vicarious high
dhl: that happens to many smokers
dhl: best kind
katy: how many hours are left?
Bed-In New Zealand: 23:26 to go - can you make it that far?
katy: are you going to be revisited by the local papers?
Bed-In New Zealand: hi susann, Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: there's another paper coming tomorrow
katy: i'm not sure!!!! i might need the coffee!
(private message deleted)
dhl: cool!
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted Romy ***
katy: if you aren't interested in discussing please leave
Bed-In New Zealand: wow, did you see that guy!
dhl: really
katy: do you know of any other coverage?
dhl: Well everyone, I think I'm gonna pack it in for the evening. It's actually bed time out here. I'll check in tomorrow.

MISSING TEXT?

Bed-In New Zealand: atif, Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: He gave a pep talk to a crowd of about 2,000, took questions from Air Force men and women, and signed one of the huge satellite-guided bombs that the Stealth bomber has used with a short message: "Go get 'em. D.R."
Avri: hi
Bed-In New Zealand: hello avri
Bed-In New Zealand: what do you think of what Rumsfeld said - see above
Avri: your picture is very dark
Bed-In New Zealand: my partner is sleeping
Bed-In New Zealand: Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Avri: i am from israel
Bed-In New Zealand: how did you find this room - the bed in for peace
Avri: i think that peace is good...bad i dont know if will be peace
Bed-In New Zealand: I think that at some stage someone has to just stop the violence - otherwise its a downward spiral. Everyone wants peace. The question is how do we get it?
Avri: in new zealand is nice to talk about peace...came to live here a small time and after that you think in another way..
Avri: i dont think we get it...
Bed-In New Zealand: at some stage war has to end. is there any solution to the Palestine problem in your veiw?
Avri: yes it is.. to give them there country...but this will not make peace
Bed-In New Zealand: even if they have their own country, it will not bring peace? Why not?
Avri: they want our country too...
Bed-In New Zealand: that's a problem then
Bed-In New Zealand: isn't there a part they could have that would make everybody happy?
Avri: and even if most palestinians want peace they are some that don’t want and they make all the problem
Bed-In New Zealand: so, there are some palestinians who won't stop fighting until they have the whole of Israel?
Avri: ok it was nice to talk..see you next time....bye bye
Avri: yes they are....
Bed-In New Zealand: perhaps if the majority were satisfied the minority would lose any support for violence they have now
Avri: they are the same that attack USA
Bed-In New Zealand: hello shyguy Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: hello
Bed-In New Zealand: hello pello, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Pella Decci: hi
Bed-In New Zealand: my partner is sleeping, that's why its dark
Yapper: hiya people
(private messages deleted)
Yapper: pffffffffffffffff..........helloooooooo
Bed-In New Zealand: luana Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: anyone have any thoughts on afghanistan?
Yapper: its a waste of time bed in new zealand
salut: what do you think?
Yapper: make love not war raight?
Bed-In New Zealand: what do you mean yapper - its a waste of time?
Bed-In New Zealand: of course
Bed-In New Zealand: where are you from yapper?
Yapper: i am from Holland, and u?
Bed-In New Zealand: i am from UK/USa but now in NZ
Bed-In New Zealand: did you understand what we're doing here?
Yapper: not really bed no, what is it?
Bed-In New Zealand: We are fasting and meditating for 48 hours on world peace.
(private messages deleted)
Yapper: i am sorry bed, but were people are there is war, it will always be that way i think
salut: it may get worse
(private messages deleted)
Yapper: its getting a sick world were live in raight now
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: I think differently - but perhaps I am deluded
(private messages deleted)
Yoko: hello
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, its
Bed-In New Zealand: hello yoko Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
(private messages deleted)
Yapper: i have respect for what u are doing, and ill hope it work out well the way u wanted bed
Yapper: hi there yoko
Bed-In New Zealand: we live in hope in fairly hopeless times
Bed-In New Zealand: yoko where are you from?
Yoko: where r u from im in japan
Yoko: japan
Yapper: i am from Holland yoko
Bed-In New Zealand: how did you arrive here?
Yoko: oh
Bed-In New Zealand: petrucci is from france
Yoko: how?
Yapper: who?
Bed-In New Zealand: how did you find this room?
Yoko: i was curious about this rooms name, so
Yoko: are u guys sleepy?
Yapper: no yoko u?
Bed-In New Zealand: amy is asleep. I am very hungry more than anything
Yoko: no, it is 7:30 in japan
Yoko: I’m watching tv
Yapper: oh
Bed-In New Zealand: 23:30 in New Zealand
Yoko: why don’t you eat something?
Bed-In New Zealand: we are fasting for world peace
Yapper: its 12.17 in Holland
Yoko: ask amy to cook..
Bed-In New Zealand: we want to eat, but we're on a mission to save the world
Yapper: cook for me yoko hahahaha
Yoko: i hope i could cook for you
Yoko: oh how long
Bed-In New Zealand: we're fasting for 48 hours
Yoko: hello mi
Bed-In New Zealand: hello mi Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Yapper: bed????............ill hope it worked out the way u wanted ok???.... ill gotta go now
Yoko: where r u now, mi?
Yoko: oh you gotta go? yapper
Yoko: nice talking to you bye
Bed-In New Zealand: does anyone have a plan to ensure world peace?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello snap, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Bed-In New Zealand: hello guix, same to you too....
Guix: hi
Bed-In New Zealand: mi, snap, cms, guix, where are you from?
Guix: Italy
Mi: Poofy ivisit..
Bed-In New Zealand: poofy? mim whre are you from?
Guix: hey, what time is there now Bed.....?
Bed-In New Zealand: 23:30 Saturday
Guix: wow!
(private message deleted)
Guix: are you Andy?
Bed-In New Zealand: tired dude, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, I am
Bed-In New Zealand: this is amy
(private messages deleted)
Bed-In New Zealand: well, that was a flurry of activity.
Bed-In New Zealand: what's going on - everyone looking for dates?
yashesspace: wow still in bed
Bed-In New Zealand: hi yashesspace, welcome back.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, still in bed!
yashesspace: thanx
yashesspace: just got back to work
yashesspace: Hello BiH
Bed-In New Zealand: hi bih, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
yashesspace: Hi Andy
Bed-In New Zealand: how was your evening yashes?
Bed-In New Zealand: hi yash, this is amy typing, andy is adjusting the camera
yashesspace: well I spent it in SigloVeinte .... a dance caffe and played Pool most of the night ......
Bed-In New Zealand: nice, we have been in bed!
cesar III: hi
Bed-In New Zealand: hello cesar, welcome to the bed-in for peace..
yashesspace: yes i gathered ..... most people seem to do this today .... it is raining over here ...... a seldom thing to happen here ...... the island has been screeming for water since years
cesar III: my france
yashesspace: Hi Cesar III
cesar III: hi yashesspace
Bed-In New Zealand: we are also fasting and are feeling very weak and tired so bear with us.
yashesspace: I like your computer screen cesar
cesar III: packard bell
Bed-In New Zealand: we have had many good dialogue all day about the current global situation and how peace can be achieved. what do you guys think?
yashesspace: How is France doing these days
cesar III: yes francaise
cesar III: france 13:15
Bed-In New Zealand: comment allez vouz
cesar III: you?
yashesspace: well now that we have the ground war going and America has lost a helicopter and two pilots ..... I would say we are ahead of further disaster
Bed-In New Zealand: hello jaceee, welcome back.
(private message deleted)
jaceee: good afternoon!
jaceee: how's it going?
Bed-In New Zealand: i don't really speak french, sorry
(private message deleted)
yashesspace: The refugee crissis is getting larger by the minute
Bed-In New Zealand: very well. lots of interesting chat. andy and i are exhausted and very hungry but the project continues!
Bed-In New Zealand: peace will be achieved!
Bed-In New Zealand: no problem cesar.
Bed-In New Zealand: yash - what do u mean re: ahead of further disaster?
Bed-In New Zealand: how are things in finland this afternoon?
cesar III: tchine tchine
jaceee: well, cool, leaves on the ground. quiet.
jaceee: I am getting sick of my own watching of BBC
yashesspace: my boss has his TV on CNN all day here in the office so I am most of the time really around the information
jaceee: it is such bullshit mostly, even the "human interest" reports... somehow, I feel like it's all bullshit...
Bed-In New Zealand: we don't get any of that here. we rely on internet sites. i also am feeling like that jacee. i mean, what is the real deal? we will probably never know.
Bed-In New Zealand: i think it is all runaround too.
yashesspace: well if it really gets to groundwar America will have to take on losses ...... for a while this will be accepted ...... but it will end like Viatnam .... you can not fight a Guerrilla war if it is not your country and Win
Bed-In New Zealand: many countries have found that to be particularly true in afghanistan.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello cb66, welcome to the bed-in for peace..
CB66: Hello all
CB66: ok
cesar III: yes
yashesspace: Well I feel the news are important ..... mind you I speak German English Spanish and Portuguese so I listen to all the different points of view of news ..... add them all and you get a relativeley neutral result
yashesspace: Hi CB66
Bed-In New Zealand: that must really help to get some perspective on what is real.
yashesspace: He is gone ...
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, not interested in political discussion, many people cruising around, we have had many masturbators today.
cesar III: lol yae
yashesspace: Well at least we have visuals nowadays ....... and don’t get the twisted mouth to mouth propaganda news annymore ..... what is real and not ... is always the question
Bed-In New Zealand: true.

Zorro: hello room
Bed-In New Zealand: hello zorro, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Zorro: how are u doing
yashesspace: It is the Weekend ..... people get dirty
yashesspace: Hi Zorro
cesar III: hi zorro
Zorro: well first of all i really appriciate your love for peace
yashesspace: where is your picture .... cam not working?
Zorro: this world really need your kind of people
Bed-In New Zealand: we are okay, tired and hungry but preservering, talking to people from all over and trying to figure out what is going on and what we can do.
Zorro: hi ceaser
Bed-In New Zealand: thanks zorro. where are you located?
Zorro: but let me tell u i am from Pakistan and muslim
yashesspace: well ... be right back need a cofee........
Zorro: well i may be of entirely different views
Zorro: but the bottom line is the same, peace
Zorro: and peace for all
Bed-In New Zealand: what's going on in pakistan now?
Zorro: all the human race
Zorro: race and peace on the world
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, peace for everyone! that is the quest, how we get there is the question.
Zorro: u should see it in the scenario after 11 sep
Zorro: the history goes at least 50 years
Bed-In New Zealand: tell us what happened.
Zorro: the Paksitan is a country which had 2 enemies on the 2 longest borders
Zorro: India and Aghganistan
Bed-In New Zealand: right.
Zorro: after a long war of which Paksitan had paid a very heavy price just to get its one border secure thats Afghanistan
Bed-In New Zealand: when did that war end?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello maury, welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Zorro: the USA stranded Paksitan, President was killed believed to be by USA
Zorro: in 1987
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, thanks. right.
Zorro: so finally we had a secure Afgan border
Bed-In New Zealand: and?
Zorro: in and after Afgan war
Zorro: we had 2.5 million registered Afghan refugees
Bed-In New Zealand: wow.
Zorro: and about the same number of illegal immigrants
Bed-In New Zealand: what's the population in pakistan?
Zorro: so that was the situation when the 11 sep. incident happened
Zorro: i don't think there was not a single eye which did not shed tears on 11 sep
Zorro: its 140 million
Zorro: we have 70000 dead in Kashmir's freedom stuggle
Bed-In New Zealand: thanks. yes, that was a very difficult and emotional day.
Zorro: in last 10 years
Zorro: so our country is a worst terrorist hit country
Zorro: and we know how the USA must have felt
Bed-In New Zealand: how can all of this violence turn to peace? is there any way change can happen without bloodshed?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes.
Zorro: and there were 53 officially dead Pakistani's in new york
Bed-In New Zealand: how do the afghan refugees and the pakistanis get along?
Zorro: yes peace is not difficult if we really want peace
Zorro: well we share the same bread
Bed-In New Zealand: what do the people of pakistan want? what do you want? and how do you think we should get there.
Zorro: that country had 15 million population
Zorro: out of which 1.5 million died in 20 years of war
Zorro: 5 milliom got injured
Zorro: 5 million displaced
Bed-In New Zealand: and yes, people are people all over, i think that is the key, to break down boundaries of fear of the other and replae those thoughts with those of brotherhood.
Zorro: its real hell on the world
Bed-In New Zealand: that's 2/3 of the population!
Zorro: yes
Bed-In New Zealand: is there anyone left in afghanistan?
Zorro: and blood is blood its not christian, its not muslim its just a human blood
Bed-In New Zealand: right!
Bed-In New Zealand: why don't more people see that?
Zorro: yes a lot of people to futher face the miseries there
Zorro: the country has no railways 90 % is with out electricity, the governments are not intersted in it
Zorro: what now i think the present situation
Bed-In New Zealand: what is really going on in pakistan now? i have trouble believing what the news reports say.
Zorro: in Afghanistan, yes there is lots of trouble
Bed-In New Zealand: right, it does sound like hell. how can the people be "helped" there?
Zorro: when the news come that US troops are using the Pakistani soil
Zorro: it sparks the trouble
Bed-In New Zealand: okay.
Zorro: well actually i don't know how to stop it now
Bed-In New Zealand: hi davit, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Zorro: but what i know is that this attack on Afghanistan is taking the world to further polarization
Bed-In New Zealand: i don't think that anybody does!
Zorro: we all must think, think hard
Zorro: and get the world out of it
Bed-In New Zealand: that is very sad. one thing that could come out of the tragedy is for the world to come closer and unite together and that opportunity is being lost.
Zorro: in such a way that terrorist who so ever they may be must be dealt severely
DAVIT: oui mes desolle je compronde pas angle tu ce parller en franÁais
Bed-In New Zealand: it seems the opposite is happening.
Zorro: yes
Zorro: terrorists must be punished
Bed-In New Zealand: sorry davit, no francais.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes. but how?
DAVIT: ok c'est pas grave
Zorro: and must get into the details why this war was taking a war of christians and muslim, which it never was
Zorro: get the real culprits
Zorro: if Osama is the man then there has to be someone on his back
Zorro: so both of them to be aprehended
Bed-In New Zealand: right. how did that start? and how can we get it to end. we know that it is not a war between christians and muslims.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes.
DAVIT: zorro que tu parller de musl
Zorro: we must give another try
Zorro: the war to stop immediately
Bed-In New Zealand: another try to?
Bed-In New Zealand: what do you think will happen if it doesn't?
Zorro: and when only when all the peace efforts have failed then the war to be resorted
DAVIT: zorro que tu parller de muslim
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i agree with you.
Zorro: well its goingto be a big tragedy
Zorro: becaue getting the Osama in this way may produce thousands more Osama's
Zorro: so let it be through UN
Zorro: and tell reason out
Bed-In New Zealand: i agree with you here too and that must be avoided. it is bigger than one terrorist, it is why this call to terror exists that is the truly scary part and the part that must be addressed.
Zorro: Give the proof of Osama in the press
Zorro: must do it, give the solid proof to the press
DAVIT: zorro ouvrire ton wep cam
Zorro: then things may change
Zorro: otherwise, let the governement behave more maturely
Bed-In New Zealand: i hope that your ideas are enacted zorro so people will unite together to work for positive change.
Bed-In New Zealand: the us govt. i assume you are talking about?
Bed-In New Zealand: or govt. in general?
Zorro: yes all peace loving people should unite and should go out in the streets but to
Bed-In New Zealand: how can we do this on a larger scale?
DAVIT: zorro esque tu et un muslim dit moi???
Zorro: i mean not go out in the street but no street power
Zorro: must have seminars and let the intellectuals speak on the issue
Zorro: with this prssumption that what all i am thinking may be absolutly wrong and maybe there is only war as the solution to the crises
Bed-In New Zealand: i see. people need to get going on this as more and more violence erupts.
Zorro: so what is important to have large scale discussion with open mind and no street demonstrations
Bed-In New Zealand: right, it is hard to know which is the best way. is there ever any best way in situations like these?
Zorro: yes no violence at all
Bed-In New Zealand: people turn to war because it is familiar? easier somehow than to address fundamental issues.
Zorro: is it very late there in NZ
Bed-In New Zealand: are people ready to solve their problems in another way?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, it is 1 am here. what time is it in pakistan?
yashesspace: well i am back ..... only a few minutes ..... would love to hear a bit more of zorros point of view ..... but no time .... later possibly ... now I have to totally rearrange the computers here ......

Bed-In New Zealand: yash, in ibiza what time is it?
yashesspace: wow andy asleep again
Bed-In New Zealand: i can no longer figure that out in my weakened state.
yashesspace: 2 pm
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, andy is asleep again.
Bed-In New Zealand: zorro has made some interesting points that you should check out.
yashesspace: you guys not drinking or eating at all ..... not even juice and fruit??
Bed-In New Zealand: i hope he returns. i have many more questions for him.
Bed-In New Zealand: no, although next time i might try juice as well as water.
yashesspace: well I hope to be able to read your log some time in whole
Bed-In New Zealand: we figured it was just two days, how bad could it be?
Bed-In New Zealand: so, you are off to work now yash?
yashesspace: well a little fruit is good .... my mum is a nutritianist so I know a little about fasting ...... a very healthy thing ......
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i agree. she thinks a little fruit makes a good fast?
yashesspace: well I came back and Zorro left ...... maybe later then
yashesspace: well she says the body needs to be wound down before one goes into no food at all
Bed-In New Zealand: okay yash. have a good one, we'll be here another 19 hours (sounds like alot when you write it like that)
Bed-In New Zealand: good body advice.
yashesspace: Ok see you later .... got to do some serious work ....
yashesspace: ciao
Bed-In New Zealand: bye
Bed-In New Zealand: jaceee? you there?
jaceee: looks like you have been busy
jaceee: I am under a bit of stress as I got a request for a recommendation that I have to react to today, among other things
jaceee: I'm doing a sabbatical-replacement at CU-Boulder next spring for Mark Amerika
jaceee: but the dept chair wants a rec
Raven: hi
jaceee: so I have to bother a friend who just finished a bunch of recs for me for other things. blah blah blah
jaceee: is Andy sleeping?
Bed-In New Zealand: hi raven, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...

Zorro: am i talking to Amy
Bed-In New Zealand: hi jaceee, yes andy is sleeping. we have been taking it in turns.
Zorro: is it very late there in NZ
Bed-In New Zealand: hi zorro, yes this is amy and jacee from finland is also here.
Zorro: cool
jaceee: yes it IS cool
Zorro: Jaceee how ru
Bed-In New Zealand: we can see you now zorro.
jaceee: doing okay, except for being depressed at what the US govt is doing
Bed-In New Zealand: where in pakistan are you located?
Zorro: i am in the nations capital - Islamabad
Bed-In New Zealand: right.
Bed-In New Zealand: how did you hear about the bed-in?
Zorro: just moving here and there
Bed-In New Zealand: in ivisit?
Zorro: i saw the rooms name and frankly i thought it’s something else
Bed-In New Zealand: i think a lot of people have made that mistake.
Zorro: so i came here
Bed-In New Zealand: welcome back new york city
Zorro: yes but it was a very good mistake from my side
NewYorkCity: hello again!
Zorro: u see after being disconnected i came back to the room
Bed-In New Zealand: for us too.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, we saw.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello michael, skippy and thom, Welcome to the bed-in for peace…
Zorro: now i think u can see me better
Bed-In New Zealand: this is the best way to weed out people not interested in the topic.
jaceee: yes, that's a good tactic...
Zorro: Jaceee can we hear anything from u Direct from Finland
NewYorkCity: have there been many visitors this past evening?
Zorro: ok
jaceee: like ... news?
Zorro: no your personal views
Zorro: that more important
Bed-In New Zealand: on and off, we had quite a conversation earlier in the day. yash was back briefly and now jaceee is here again along with our new guest zorro from islamabad.
Zorro: we should not neglect us the comon people
jaceee: the Finns are totally reserved about this (and everything else in the world)... it is a very isolated and "safe" corner of the world and they don't want to get into anything with anybody! except Nokia!
Zorro: well u know now its with or against the terrorist
jaceee: They have a living memory of savage war conditions where they were caught between the Russians and the Germans
Zorro: thats the option given to our country too
jaceee: and both sides screwed them...
clevo: go the ibook in bed lol
jaceee: I think countries who have living memory of war on their land experience the world differently
Bed-In New Zealand: why is there no middle ground, like being against the terrorists but also against military force? is that possible?
NewYorkCity: that's exactly what i was gonna ask zorro!
Bed-In New Zealand: hello clevo, welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Zorro: the great leader and champion of freedom
clevo: i live in brisbane australia
clevo: peacefull as here
Zorro: hello clevo
clevo: hey
jaceee: well I think the concept of being "against" terrorism frames it wrong...
jaceee: it is not a "foe" to oppose
Bed-In New Zealand: tell us more jaceee.
jaceee: instead one needs to be FOR conditions that do not support terrorism
jaceee: like justice and equality
Bed-In New Zealand: exactly! good point jaceee.
clevo: i think both sides are wong and they shouldn’t have war but in saying that i think the muslim fundamentalists are f*$ked up in the head
Zorro: yes
Zorro: why we all can think in this way
jaceee: opposition to something strengthens it. this is an old paradigm
Zorro: hey u have got brains i must say that Jacee
jaceee: pushing against a phantom will only strengthen the phantom
Zorro: but we have to fight it out too
Zorro: how to fight it
Bed-In New Zealand: hello nieuwenhuys! how are you? we are speaking with people from all over right now, from brisbane to finland to islamabad, and now south london!